Console Exclusives: Are you for or against them & why?

[Phil]

All i am saying, and that's not an opinion, is that if you take any game and focus on a single platform it will be better for that platform than if the game was developed for multiple platforms

That is true. I, nor anyone else, I think isn't denying it. What I am saying however is that the difference between 'focusing on a singular platform vs. a game that needs to run well on two platforms' is smaller this gen than any gen before it.

It IMO doesn't even have to do how big the [performance] difference is between consoles. What is relevant is that they are both similar in design and technology. It's a bit like having two identical consoles, one just clocked a bit higher. Both can do the same, just one can do it a little quicker. Last generation, it wasn't quite that simple. There we had two more unique hardware that did different things better. One was better at raw compute (that is well suited for physics), the other was simply really efficient and more balanced. So the best of both consoles went in different directions and those that needed to tick both boxes, had a much lower common denominator.

This time around, that 'common denominator' is much higher and therefore much closer to that 'potential maximum' anyway. So the difference between well organized good multi-plat games and exclusive impressive games is that much smaller.

 

[pjbliverpool]

We know nothing about the game at all, it is a 2017 title and it's also being published by Ubisoft so i don't expect it to look anywhere near as good at release, much like Watch Dogs, Unity and The Division.

This is extremely speculative.

About Tomb Raider and The Order whether or not the tech was developed with different platforms in mind it benefits the single platform (X1, Ps4) anyway because the developers are able to focus on single spec and provide higher performance/res than they would be able to if they were developing for three platforms at the same time.

This doesn't make any sense at all. You say Tomb raider has benefited from exclusively targeting the XBO, so when it inevitably gets released on the PS4 and PC, are you saying that benefit to the XBO suddenly disappears because it's now a multi platform game?

Surely the game will still "make the most" of the XBO at that point? Arguably the PS4 version might not be optimal but unless it runs worse I'm not sure how this would be any different to any other multiplatform game.

Bottom line is that any game can be developed with multiplatform in mind, and then the end target optimised for each console individually to get the best performance possible. That's clearly the case for Tomb Raider so in that respect it's no different to a regular multi platform game aside from the two versions being separated by launch date. That is unless the PS4 game is a pile of rubbish and actually looks or runs worse than the XBO.

But even then - you still can't claim multi platform games are inherently inferior to exclusives because the game is targeted specifically at one of those systems just like an exclusive would be (the XBO in this case). The best you can say is that multiplatforms may not be able to get the best out of ALL systems they target but may still be able to get the best out of at least one of those systems - and thus the core graphics irrespective of performance and resolution can be equivalent to the best exclusives.

 

[Clukos]

That is true. I, nor anyone else, I think isn't denying it. What I am saying however is that the difference between 'focusing on a singular platform vs. a game that needs to run well on two platforms' is smaller this gen than any gen before it.

It IMO doesn't even have to do how big the [performance] difference is between consoles. What is relevant is that they are both similar in design and technology. It's a bit like having two identical consoles, one just clocked a bit higher. Both can do the same, just one can do it a little quicker. Last generation, it wasn't quite that simple. There we had two more unique hardware that did different things better. One was better at raw compute (that is well suited for physics), the other was simply really efficient and more balanced. So the best of both consoles went in different directions and those that needed to tick both boxes, had a much lower common denominator.

This time around, that 'common denominator' is much higher and therefore much closer to that 'potential maximum' anyway. So the difference between well organized good multi-plat games and exclusive impressive games is that much smaller.

I agree with that (in that the potential for striking multiplatform games is there, more-so than any other gen). I am still waiting for something truly spectacular that also runs great and keeps a good res/perf ratio though.

But even then - you still can't claim multi platform games are inherently inferior to exclusives because the game is targeted specifically at one of those systems just like an exclusive would be (the XBO in this case). The best you can say is that multiplatforms may not be able to get the best out of ALL systems they target but may still be able to get the best out of at least one of those systems - and thus the core graphics irrespective of performance and resolution can be equivalent to the best exclusives.

Inferiority has nothing to do with it, i'll try to talk in your terms. Do you believe that multiplatform games are making the most out of PC right now? Would a game developed with 5960x and a TitanX + 16 gigs of DDR4 ram as base spec be any different from what you get now? Definitely yes. In a way, that is why Ubisoft over-promises and under delivers this gen so far (visually speaking). They showcase a build of the game running on high end PC hardware and the end product (both for PC and consoles) is nowhere near that initial target.

 

[chris1515]

Have we seen Ghost Recon Wildlands PS4 and Xbox One version? No. Like Clukos said it could not be the first AAA Ubi game to be downgraded on PC(Far Cry 3, AC Unity, The Division.. )... Like CDProjekt said they can do a better version of The Witcher 3 for each platform if the game was exclusive (PS4, PC and Xbox One) but it was financially impossible...

And it is a bit more complex than that the RAD engine was version 5.2 last time someone speak about the game engine in an interview and it was the same engine on PSP just another version. An engine is not only a renderer but some tools too...

 

[chris1515]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...he-witcher-3-graphics-downgrade-issue-head-on

id the console versions restrict the PC version?
"If the consoles are not involved there is no Witcher 3 as it is," answers Marcin Iwinski, definitively. "We can lay it out that simply. We just cannot afford it, because consoles allow us to go higher in terms of the possible or achievable sales; have a higher budget for the game, and invest it all into developing this huge, gigantic world.

"Developing only for the PC: yes, probably we could get more [in terms of graphics] as there would be nothing else - they would be so focused, like if we would develop only on Xbox One or PlayStation 4. But then we cannot afford such a game."

Maybe Xbox One and PS4 version would be 30 fps locked if they were exclusives...

 

[pjbliverpool]

Do you believe that multiplatform games are making the most out of PC right now?

No, but the PC is a completely different argument to the consoles since it features a very different architecture with radically different performance levels. I do agree on your point that you can never get the most out of a particular PC spec while also targeting consoles.

However I don't agree that it's impossible to get the most out of say the PS4 while also allowing for the same game to run on the XBO (at a lower resolution with perhaps some other cut backs) and the PC.

Or put another way, it's entirely possible that Star Wars Battlefront for example targets the PS4 to get the absolute maximum out of that platform just like an exclusive game, and then simply ports that to the XBO with lower resolution and a few other tweaks - perhaps with slightly less optimal usage. On that basis it makes no sense to claim that exclusive games x,y,x look better than multi platform games a,b,c because they are exclusive. And Tomb Raider is a case in point, it's being claimed to look better than any multiplatform game (a claim I don't agree with) on the - likely correct - assumption that it gets the most out of the XBO. And yet that doesn't stop it releasing on other platforms meaning that at it's core, it's a multi platform game.

 

[Clukos]

It's looks better than any other multiplatform game on Xbox One. Also considering it's 1080p30, something we rarely see in multiplatform games released on Xbox One.

Take this footage shown recently for example:
http://www.gamersyde.com/hqstream_rise_of_the_tomb_raider_gc_briefing_theater_demo-35324_en.html

As far as we know Battlefront could be running at 720p if things haven't improved with Frostbite... It's not even close when it comes to image quality.

 

[chris1515]

No, but the PC is a completely different argument to the consoles since it features a very different architecture with radically different performance levels. I do agree on your point that you can never get the most out of a particular PC spec while also targeting consoles.

However I don't agree that it's impossible to get the most out of say the PS4 while also allowing for the same game to run on the XBO (at a lower resolution with perhaps some other cut backs) and the PC.

Or put another way, it's entirely possible that Star Wars Battlefront for example targets the PS4 to get the absolute maximum out of that platform just like an exclusive game, and then simply ports that to the XBO with lower resolution and a few other tweaks - perhaps with slightly less optimal usage. On that basis it makes no sense to claim that exclusive games x,y,x look better than multi platform games a,b,c because they are exclusive. And Tomb Raider is a case in point, it's being claimed to look better than any multiplatform game (a claim I don't agree with) on the - likely correct - assumption that it gets the most out of the XBO. And yet that doesn't stop it releasing on other platforms meaning that at it's core, it's a multi platform game.

Generally you target the less powerful platform and you scale up after. And the lowest platform was not the Xbox One but probably a low spec PC but now than we begin to see current gen console only title it will begin to be different...

 

[pjbliverpool]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...he-witcher-3-graphics-downgrade-issue-head-on

Maybe Xbox One and PS4 version will be 30 fps locked if they were exclusives...

That's simply a question of budget. Fixed budget = fixed team = more time for the team to focus on a single version = better results. That goes without saying. But that's not a reason why exclusive games are inherently going to look better than multiplatform games since multiplatform games, on account of their larger target audience can afford a bigger budget and larger team.

 

[chris1515]

That's simply a question of budget. Fixed budget = fixed team = more time for the team to focus on a single version = better results. That goes without saying. But that's not a reason why exclusive games are inherently going to look better than multiplatform games since multiplatform games, on account of their larger target audience can afford a bigger budget and larger team.

Bigger budget don't mean bigger budget for each version of a game or in game development. Most of the time it means more budget for marketing... When I compare number of TV ad between Sony exclusives games and big AAA games it is clearly much bigger on 3rd party side for example...

I think Star wars Battlefront or Mirror Edge are more impressive than any exclusives console games on a high end PC... On consoles I need to wait each version but the 60 fps choice on a fixed platform is a huge disavantage... If it was exclusive the game would run maybe at a better framerate, would it look like better than 30 fps games no way...

For the moment the 60 fps is very variable more than BF4 but I wait final version..

 

[pjbliverpool]

It's looks better than any other multiplatform game on Xbox One. Also considering it's 1080p30, something we rarely see in multiplatform games released on Xbox One.

So you believe there are multiplatform games on the PS4 that look better than Tomb Raider? Do you have any examples?

 

[chris1515]

After a games is not only a rendering engine, it is a blend between design team, art rendering team and software rendering team... On PS4 I think the best example is The Order 1886. The lightning is not completely dynamic but I was impress by the graphics each time I play. I finish the game two times and I plays some chapter a 3rd time to try to find how they do the rendering. I found some default of reatime rendering but it is very well done...

Probably one of the first game I can play in 7 to 10 years and said it looks like good even if some games will look like much better...

 

[Clukos]

So you believe there are multiplatform games on the PS4 that look better than Tomb Raider? Do you have any examples?

I didn't say that, i talk about specific platforms because comparing different results in different platforms is kinda pointless for this discussion. The point is, if we isolate a platform and take two similar games released at similar time window, which is more technically accomplished (everything from res, framerate, rendering tech etc.), a multiplatform game or an exclusive one? My guess would always be the exclusive game just because of the extra time available for optimization by developers.

RoTR is a unique case, i think it'll get enough time to be polished for all platforms equally, X1 then 6 months after PC release, then 6 months after Ps4 release. It'll take an incredible blunder to mess any release on any platform. So in a way the exclusivity period is good for all platforms as you'll get a more polished game no matter your platform of preference.

 

[DrJay24]

So you believe there are multiplatform games on the PS4 that look better than Tomb Raider? Do you have any examples?

Until it's released, they all look better.

 

[pjbliverpool]

I didn't say that, i talk about specific platforms because comparing different results in different platforms is kinda pointless for this discussion. The point is, if we isolate a platform and take two similar games released at similar time window, which is more technically accomplished (everything from res, framerate, rendering tech etc.), a multiplatform game or an exclusive one? My guess would always be the exclusive game just because of the extra time available for optimization by developers.

But this ignores the fact that the multi platform game could have a larger budget because it has potentially more sales. So with a larger budget they may be able to afford more team members to give greater focus to the needs of each version (running in parallel so not necessarily impacting timescales for any single version). In fact, if we were to take the example of a PS4 exclusive, or the same game released on both PS4 and XBO, then theoretically, and holding all other things equal the developers would be able to afford an additional budget equal to the entire profit gained from the XBO sales and dedicate that to XBO optimisation (over and above what they would have already spent on PS4 optimisation in the exclusive scenario). So in that way way the PS4 still gets the exact same budget spent on it while the XBO get's a pretty huge budget dedicated to it's version too.

So why would the PS4 version end up technically worse in that scenario?

 

[chris1515]

http://gearnuke.com/ready-dawns-order-1886-engine-targeted-pcps4-check-running-60-fps-pc/

The RAD engine running at 60 fps on PC

 

[dobwal]

I didn't say that, i talk about specific platforms because comparing different results in different platforms is kinda pointless for this discussion. The point is, if we isolate a platform and take two similar games released at similar time window, which is more technically accomplished (everything from res, framerate, rendering tech etc.), a multiplatform game or an exclusive one? My guess would always be the exclusive game just because of the extra time available for optimization by developers.

RoTR is a unique case, i think it'll get enough time to be polished for all platforms equally, X1 then 6 months after PC release, then 6 months after Ps4 release. It'll take an incredible blunder to mess any release on any platform. So in a way the exclusivity period is good for all platforms as you'll get a more polished game no matter your platform of preference.

You have to isolate more than platform. Time, money and talent are all variables that come into play because for every Ryse and Infamous title, there is a Titan Fall out there somewhere.

In about 2-3 years, these consoles will be well known hardware across the board where extracting additional performance will be like squeezing blood from a turnip.

 

[iroboto]

In about 2-3 years, these consoles will be well known hardware across the board where extracting additional performance will be like squeezing blood from a turnip.

Uhh is this supposed to be a lot or a little? Lol I've never heard of such a term.

 

[DrJay24]

I don't think there is a lot of blood in Turnips

 

[dobwal]

Uhh is this supposed to be a lot or a little? Lol I've never heard of such a term.

A little or more like impossible. Blood from a stone is another. With each iteration, developers become more knowledgeable about the hardware regardless if their projects are multiplat or exclusive in nature. Law of diminishing returns becomes a more prominent reality the more mature the gen gets.