COD2 benches..a comparison point?

[MrWibble]

...
I was actually talking with friends a while back on Messenger using smilies, and felt we were heading back to using pictographs. Perhaps in 300 yers time electronic pictographics will be the norm

Only marginally more on-topic: sometimes when playing translated RPGs it seems that entire conversations are conducted entirely in punctuation.

Player: !
Player: ...

NPC: ?

Player: £$£@"£?!!

NPC: ...

etc.

 

[Carl B]

Only marginally more on-topic: sometimes when playing translated RPGs it seems that entire conversations are conducted entirely in punctuation.

Player: !
Player: ...

NPC: ?

Player: £$£@"£?!!

NPC: ...

etc.

BUT, the difference is, that those sorts of 'dialogue' segments are totally awesome.

(and convey so much!)

I don't think they're any different for being translated either, I believe that sort of 'dramatic pause' talk is used in the Japanese as well.

Completely on topic, it's just useless to try and compare a closed environment system and a general PC in terms of power based on how the games look and their frame rates. Certainly, the XBox's ability to play Doom belied the ability it's hardware would have implied. Clearly I expect Xenos to be very competetive at present playing PC ports, and to be so for some many years to come.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Only marginally more on-topic: sometimes when playing translated RPGs it seems that entire conversations are conducted entirely in punctuation.

Player: !
Player: ...

NPC: ?

Player: £$£@"£?!!

NPC: ...

etc.

I guess this is the non-verbal communication that makes up the majority of human communication but which doesn't transcribe well onto static characters. Or text, hence the use of smilies for internet usage. I guess this type of text will become obsolete next-gen with detailed character animations. MGS4 had some really nice facial motions going on.

 

[!eVo!-X Ant UK]

the answear is a simple one, they have OPTOMISED the 360 version heavly over the month's hence the great performance were as the 7800 has had no optomisations what so ever.

 

[Bill]

Well I dont see the problem if Xbox360 is more powerful.

It's not about Graphics, I've been told.

So what's the big deal?

 

[scooby_dooby]

If we were to linearly extrapolate RSX figures based on clockspeed, we see it edge out the X360. See how easy (and foolish) it is to draw conclusions that suit our purposes?

If you linearly extrapolate for RSX, and take into consideration the 128bit Bus, the peak framerate drops signifigantly from the stock 7800, and it takes even larger hits when 4xAA/HDR is applied.

No one has said this is a hugely meaningful comparison, more filed under 'things that make you go hmmmm'

 

[scooby_dooby]

the answear is a simple one, they have OPTOMISED the 360 version heavly over the month's hence the great performance were as the 7800 has had no optomisations what so ever.

how do you know the answer isn't that Xenos is a better GPU than the 7800GTX? I mean....that's possible right?...no?

 

[Bill]

If you linearly extrapolate for RSX, and take into consideration the 128bit Bus, the peak framerate drops signifigantly from the stock 7800, and it takes even larger hits when 4xAA/HDR is applied.

No one has said this is a hugely meaningful comparison, more filed under 'things that make you go hmmmm'

How do we know the effect of the bus?

 

[scooby_dooby]

Well it gives you half the bandwidth to memory I believe. Dave did comparisons with a overclocked GTX with 40% lower memory bandwidth, and it suffered big hits. Especially when enabling HDR and AA.

Not saying RSX is just an overclocked G70, but Nicked's point about extrapolating the numbers is compeltely flawed. Take bandwidth into consideration and framerates would be lower across the board, regardless of the higher clockspeed.

No Anisotropic filtering?

It's a demo bro, demo's usually suck

 

[Bill]

Are those comparisons on the main site?

Also what about the XDR RAM?

 

[ihamoitc2005]

I am "Beating a dead horse" but why not

While I understand the point you are trying to make, your percentages appear to be way off

There is only a 10% pixel resolution between them. With Xbox 360 having a 33% better framerate you would then need to take 10% off that, which makes it still 30% better performance. With 2x AA added, again there is roughly a 45% performance advantage, but a 10% resolution decrease that needs to be taken into account, which still leaves Xbox 360 with a 41% better framerate....

So to beat a dead horse with not so scientific method based on pixel rate and assuming PC and Xbox360 versions are same in technical comparison (polygons, textures, lights, etc.):

Xbox360 = 55,296,000/(1280 x 720) = 60fps

7800GTX = 45,350,512/(1280 x 1024) = 34.6fps

RSX*= (45,350,512 x (550/430))/(1280 x 720) = 62.94fps

*What may or may not be RSX

 

[ihamoitc2005]

Maybe

Thought I'd point out that the 360 is locked at 60 FPS- meaning it NEVER drops below, and never goes above.

You're looking at average figures for the PC cards and comparing it to the minimum of the X360. While not incredibly accurate, perhaps comparing the minimum FPS of the PC cards with the 60 FPS would be more realistic?

Obviously, if locked at 60 FPS, the 360 is completely capable of rendering the scenes at much more than 60 FPS, its simply limited by the framerate the televisions are outputting.

We do not know any real details but many console games have dynamic detail change based on scene to maintain frame-rate. RSC2 for xbox is very efficient in this balancing capability and hence has very good frame-rate in comparison with other xbox games.

 

[shortround]

We do not know any real details but many console games have dynamic detail change based on scene to maintain frame-rate. RSC2 for xbox is very efficient in this balancing capability and hence has very good frame-rate in comparison with other xbox games.

I understand we don't have the details, we don't know the framerate CoD2 will run at, locked at 30, locked at 60, back and forth between the two, detail changing, whatever.

That's why I wrote "IF" it's locked at 60.

It's just hypothetical.

 

[scooby_dooby]

ihomoitc, why do you assume halving the bandwidth to main memory would have no effect on framerate? A G70 overclocked to 550 with a 128bit bus, and 4xAA or HDR lighting at HD resolutions would probably be much lower than the stock G70 on COD2.

For example, in a comparison with an overclocked G70 with lowered memory bus speed, the stock G70 hit 57FPS in SC3, while the overlocked G70 w/ lowered bandwidth only hit 41FPS.

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21295&highlight=7800

 

[Hardknock]

So to beat a dead horse with not so scientific method based on pixel rate and assuming PC and Xbox360 versions are same in technical comparison (polygons, textures, lights, etc.):

Xbox360 = 55,296,000/(1280 x 720) = 60fps

7800GTX = 45,350,512/(1280 x 1024) = 34.6fps

RSX*= (45,350,512 x (550/430))/(1280 x 720) = 62.94fps

*What may or may not be RSX

And do you really think RSX would run it at 62.94fps or just locked at 60fps like the Xbox 360 version?

This debate is getting silly, lets wait til Armored Core 4 before we compare the systems

 

[Bill]

I'm more interested in the no AA/AF benches. The 128-bus G70 appears to take about a 20% hit at near 720P.

I wonder if careful optimization can remove that hit?

 

[ihamoitc2005]

Unscientific Method and dynamic LOD

And do you really think RSX would run it at 62.94fps or just locked at 60fps like the Xbox 360 version?

This debate is getting silly, lets wait til Armored Core 4 before we compare the systems

Of course 60fps will be framerate of a sophisticated game engines will adjust details to make sure frame-rate will be stable. Many games do this.

But as I said in previous post, specific numbers in calculations are only for fun and use unscientific methods. Also, the 7800GTX numbers I used are not measure of shader performance because it is limited by AA and AF. Also we do not know how much gain the Xbox360 version of COD2 will have without AA so scientific comparison is not possible.

Armored Core 4 has only videos. Yes the PS3 video is better but it might be like Killzone video and not real-time like MGS4 video. You are right we will have to wait for real scientific comparison. But at this stage since we are all making guesses it is ok to enjoy speculation.

 

[ihamoitc2005]

MIstake

I understand we don't have the details, we don't know the framerate CoD2 will run at, locked at 30, locked at 60, back and forth between the two, detail changing, whatever.

That's why I wrote "IF" it's locked at 60.

It's just hypothetical.

I apologize, I misunderstood and thought COD2 for Xbox360 was stable 60fps.

 

[Bill]

I apologize, I misunderstood and thought COD2 for Xbox360 was stable 60fps.

It is. A final review says that.

Also says looks better than the PC.

 

[Apoc]

It is. A final review says that.

Also says looks better than the PC.

Link?