*Circus of Value* Spin-off

[patsu]

you listed it as a part of the ps3 benfits and put live as a negative .

Yes, that's when the topic even get to Blu-ray (usually because they ask about the price difference... Blu-ray, wireless, bigger HDD, ... that sort of things). Right now it's just a not-so-relevant bullet point to most of them. The guy who settled on PS3 usually wait until the movie price drop then buy (like me !). Sometimes, we share movies too.

I bought the new indiana jones last week at best buy. It was $25 bucks vs $15 bucks on dvd. That $10 is more than the cost of 2 months of live.

Sure but your previous post said $20 difference ?

Iron Man cost me $30 vs the $15 the dvd was going for. Thats more than 3 months of live. older titles have an even larger price diffrence.

Ironman should be $23, my friend: http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?threadid=936594

Also, you can't compare apples and oranges like that
People prefer different things and value them differently. A $X movie is different from an $X online gaming subscription and is different from a $X pair of shoes.

Prices are getting lower and thats good. The fact remains that we can wait around for sales on everything. I was able to get the newest smallville series on dvd for $28 bucks bluray the lowest its gone is $54. Amazon is an option but not everyone uses it . Waiting for bogos and what not is great but sometimes its hard to find multiple titles you want and still buying 2 blurays at a place like bestbuy could still cost you a good 40 or 50 and you'd end up paying more for them.

Sure but for people who are sensitive to the price, they will do whatever is right to commit. These people also know that their are the early adoptors. Some chose not to be one. I am not going to tell them when or what to buy (Actually, I am more interested to ask them after-the-fact what they bought coz I can learn something from their decision making).

You say the quulity and additional content makes up for the price premium . Isn't it the same with xbox live . Doesn't the quality and additional content make up for the extra $30-40 a year your spending.

Of course, but they simply value a gaming subscription differently from a move title they own. You're confused because you think that the absolute dollar amount is the only thing that matters. It's usually a balance between price perception and personal value judgement.

 

[DrJay24]

Prices are getting lower and thats good. The fact remains that we can wait around for sales on everything.

...

Doesn't the quality and additional content make up for the extra $30-40 a year your spending.

You can't have it both ways, 1Yr Live MSRP is $49.99, which is what BB is selling at.

 

[makattack]

You can't have it both ways, 1Yr Live MSRP is $49.99, which is what BB is selling at.

I just recently bought a XB360, shortly after the price drop. I bought it at BestBuy, who at the time were running a clearance on the "XBL Vision Camera + 1 yr + 2 XBL arcade games" bundle for $50.00

It was a great deal for me, as I see that it's now selling for near $80.00 on Amazon, buy.com, et al.

Granted, I only have one game that uses the camera: Burnout Paradise, and I haven't even spent the 200 MS points it also included. I find getting time to use it extremely rare, and it's overwhelming with all the great games available for cheap on it. Bought a bunch of titles for under $40.00... many at ~$20.00USD.

 

[eastmen]

You can't have it both ways, 1Yr Live MSRP is $49.99, which is what BB is selling at.

thats 13 months $49.99 / 13 = $3.85 a month.

Yes, that's when the topic even get to Blu-ray (usually because they ask about the price difference... Blu-ray, wireless, bigger HDD, ... that sort of things). Right now it's just a not-so-relevant bullet point to most of them. The guy who settled on PS3 usually wait until the movie price drop then buy (like me !). Sometimes, we share movies too.

I'm not sure. You list that you have to pay for live, but you don't list that you have to pay more for bluray. Also what bigger hardrive ? The xbox 360 is $200 sans hardrive , $300 with a hardrive and $400 with a 120 gig hardrive. Either you pay $100 less for 20 gigs less or the same price for another 40 gigs. Also wifi adapters only cost $15 bucks for the 360.

Even still the 360 has the hd movie rental service and so you can watch very nice high def movies on the 360.

Sure but your previous post said $20 difference ?

There are titles that have $20 diffrences. I just listed two new releases .


Here is one comparison that will blow your socks off

Sorpanos Season 6 part 2 BR $119 vs Sapronos season 6 part 2 Dvd $55 Your looking at $64 dollars diffrence.

I tried not to exagerate or pick really unfair comparisons in prices

Ironman should be $23, my friend: http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthr...hreadid=936594

Also, you can't compare apples and oranges like that
People prefer different things and value them differently. A $X movie is different from an $X online gaming subscription and is different from a $X pair of shoes.

Go to the website its $27 bucks on there. I don't see why I shoudl believe a person who said YMMV.

As for valueing things difrently perhaps. however your already introducing bias when your impleying negativity with live prices and not with bluray prices.

Of course, but they simply value a gaming subscription differently from a move title they own. You're confused because you think that the absolute dollar amount is the only thing that matters. It's usually a balance between price perception and personal value judgement.

When they are being presented something in a negative light of course they will think diffrently about it . I'm sure if you pointed them out hte price diffrence of the sorpanos seasons they would think more negatively about bluray also.

 

[Cheezdoodles]

Why are people comparing BR prices to XBL ?

I dunno what your on about, but its ridiculous, two completely different things and totally not comparable.

 

[joker454]

I'm curious why the cost of Live is always factored into console costs even though many people will not even bother with it, however electricity use is always ignored. PS3 burns more, so if you play both consoles the same amount, you will have spent more money playing on PS3.

I have no clue how electric is billed in Europe, do you guys pay a flat fee for it, or is it so cheap that the cost is negligible? Here in California it's a tier system, the more you use the more the cost goes up. Single people who leave nothing on pay very cheap monthly fee, for them it's moot. But if you have someone at home all the time, like kids or a work at home spouse, then your bill shoots up significantly since electronics, lights, etc are on all day.

In our case my wife works at home and we have lots of computers putting us in a high electric tier. The cost of using a PS3 vs. using a 360 for gaming easily exceeds what we would have spent on Live over the year. I know everyone's mileage will clearly vary on this, but if people are going to incorrectly assume that everyone will pay for Live, then they should at least take electric use into account as well, since no one has a choice on that.

 

[obonicus]

I'm curious why the cost of Live is always factored into console costs even though many people will not even bother with it, however electricity use is always ignored. PS3 burns more, so if you play both consoles the same amount, you will have spent more money playing on PS3.

Is this true? According to eastmen's numbers it doesn't seem so clear, other than for newer (whatever's in the 60GB 360 he tested) machines.

 

[DrJay24]

I'm curious why the cost of Live is always factored into console costs even though many people will not even bother with it, however electricity use is always ignored. PS3 burns more, so if you play both consoles the same amount, you will have spent more money playing on PS3.

I have no clue how electric is billed in Europe, do you guys pay a flat fee for it, or is it so cheap that the cost is negligible? Here in California it's a tier system, the more you use the more the cost goes up. Single people who leave nothing on pay very cheap monthly fee, for them it's moot. But if you have someone at home all the time, like kids or a work at home spouse, then your bill shoots up significantly since electronics, lights, etc are on all day.

In our case my wife works at home and we have lots of computers putting us in a high electric tier. The cost of using a PS3 vs. using a 360 for gaming easily exceeds what we would have spent on Live over the year. I know everyone's mileage will clearly vary on this, but if people are going to incorrectly assume that everyone will pay for Live, then they should at least take electric use into account as well, since no one has a choice on that.

So what is that price difference?

Say 0.50KWh per week difference? So 2KWh a month. Say $0.30 a KWh in CA, so $.60 a month?

That can't be right can it?

 

[joker454]

So what is that price difference?

Say 0.50KWh per week difference? So 2KWh a month. Say $0.30 a KWh in CA, so $.60 a month?

That can't be right can it?

I'd have to go dig up an old bill. The kWh costs here go up as you hop into higher tiers of use. The idea is to penalize those who use the most. We had a bill as high as $280 for just one month of electric, but dropped that down to around $200/month just by turning off two computers that used to be on all the time.

Then again, a friend of mine that lives alone in the same county as us pays just $15/month, so cost is all over the map.

 

[DrJay24]

I'd have to go dig up an old bill. The kWh costs here go up as you hop into higher tiers of use. The idea is to penalize those who use the most. We had a bill as high as $280 for just one month of electric, but dropped that down to around $200/month just by turning off two computers that used to be on all the time.

Then again, a friend of mine that lives alone in the same county as us pays just $15/month, so cost is all over the map.

I had to guess on the price of a KWh, a web page said $0.12 for CA average for 2003, my buddy at work thought he paid $0.17, so I used $0.30.

The problem about caring about power cost is the two consoles are very close in their draw now, it's not a 360 doesn't use electricity.

 

[joker454]

The problem about caring about power cost is the two consoles are very close in their draw now, it's not a 360 doesn't use electricity.

I see. I had used that kill-a-watt device on my units, at the time the difference was significant between the two. I guess its moot now if the 360 Arcade burns the same as the PS3.

 

[DrJay24]

I see. I had used that kill-a-watt device on my units, at the time the difference was significant between the two. I guess its moot now if the 360 Arcade burns the same as the PS3.

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1203320&postcount=1

Has the numbers for the new 60GB 360 and the old 40GB PS3. I would assume the HD-less Arcade is a bit less, but so is the new 80GB PS3.

I think I used 50W difference based on 10hrs a week, I guess that was a little off, it may be more like 30-35W.

Now if you have an original 60GB PS3 like me you are using a lot more power, which is why I am thinking of selling it in favor of a 80GB.

 

[patsu]

thats 13 months $49.99 / 13 = $3.85 a month.

...forever. Versus free. That will be the question in their mind. Free is a powerful word in marketing.

I'm not sure. You list that you have to pay for live, but you don't list that you have to pay more for bluray. Also what bigger hardrive ? The xbox 360 is $200 sans hardrive , $300 with a hardrive and $400 with a 120 gig hardrive. Either you pay $100 less for 20 gigs less or the same price for another 40 gigs. Also wifi adapters only cost $15 bucks for the 360.

Sure. In fact, they knew about Blu-ray being more expensive and won the HD war (common sense and knowledge, isn't it ?) before I told them. Like I said, those who are interested in Blu-ray already know what they are getting into. What I do like to point out is: Blu-ray is not in the growth stage where it can swing game consoles sales (yet ?).

I haven't even mentioned expandable HDD to them.
I don't usually do so until they expressed more interests or when they asked (coz it will confuse them).

Even still the 360 has the hd movie rental service and so you can watch very nice high def movies on the 360.

Yes, they are available on PS Store. It seems that we may see DivX VOD movies too. However they are not Blu-ray movies.

There are titles that have $20 diffrences. I just listed two new releases .

Here is one comparison that will blow your socks off

Sorpanos Season 6 part 2 BR $119 vs Sapronos season 6 part 2 Dvd $55 Your looking at $64 dollars diffrence.

I tried not to exagerate or pick really unfair comparisons in prices

That's multiple discs. Of course the difference will be greater. What blew my socks off was to see someone walk away with a season pack. Then again, those who see value will want it. Blu-ray is not mainstream, the enthusiasts would pay for the difference.

The confirmation of this theory is yourself. You bought Blu-ray movies didn't you ? Even when they are available on XBL... and despite all the but's you posted.

Go to the website its $27 bucks on there. I don't see why I shoudl believe a person who said YMMV.

As for valueing things difrently perhaps. however your already introducing bias when your impleying negativity with live prices and not with bluray prices.

When they are being presented something in a negative light of course they will think diffrently about it . I'm sure if you pointed them out hte price diffrence of the sorpanos seasons they would think more negatively about bluray also.

Ha ha... I knew this card would come up.

Like I said, I don't try to sway them because I want to see their natural reaction (to validate my marketing theories). I get more value myself from the exchange that way. I believe I told you that you don't have to help 500 pound gorillas and jelly fish out. They have enough resources to forge ahead without fanboys. I do side with the consumers though.

What I have done is to call these folks up after a week to see what they end up buying, and what the sales people told them.

EDIT: Besides, if I tell them too much, I will become their after sales support.

 

[joker454]

Now if you have an original 60GB PS3 like me you are using a lot more power, which is why I am thinking of selling it in favor of a 80GB.

Yeah I had an original 20gb model, although I just sold that and have a 360 Arcade on the way. I still have a 40gb PS3 though so I'll kill-a-watt them when I get the chance. I did find this site:

http://michaelbluejay.com/electricity/computers.html

In that example, he priced 330 watts used 24/7 at $0.14kWh, making it $405 a year electric cost. Going by that B3D post you linked:

PS3 40GB 142W
360 60GB 101W

Not a totally fair comparison since the arcade model would burn less and Resistance is a launch title that doesn't use much cpu, but I'll just go with those numbers. That's a 41 watt difference. Using the other guys 330 watt calculation to extrapolate a new value:

41 / 330 * $405 = ~$50/yr if on 24/7

Lets say its only on 5 hours a day, that makes:

5 / 24 * $50 = ~$10

So only $10 a year extra if used 5 hours a day. However, that's if you are at the 'average' $0.14kWh rate, which we definitely are not.

 

[Arwin]

Not a totally fair comparison since the arcade model would burn less and Resistance is a launch title that doesn't use much cpu

Doesn't it use quite a bit more than most multi-platform games though?

Makes me wonder about comparing mult-platform games and their power usage to determine how well they use the SPU's - though probably the SPU's themselves not using a lot of power, then the power-draw may likely come more from stressing the PPU and the RSX, and then the cooling fan.

I have a launch Euro PS3 (60 obviously, though now 320 ) and a launch (I think, I actually bought it off a colleague who'd won it way back when) 360 Premium (20 obviously).

Living in Europe, where I live power doesn't come cheap, but it's a flat fee - it doesn't go up more as you use more. I'll buy a second, more energy efficient PS3 when it hits 299. I'm not using the 360 enough right now to make any form of replacement worthwhile, unfortunately, but Fable 2 may well change that.

 

[joker454]

Doesn't it use quite a bit more than most multi-platform games though?

Makes me wonder about comparing mult-platform games and their power usage to determine how well they use the SPU's - though probably the SPU's themselves not using a lot of power, then the power-draw may likely come more from stressing the PPU and the RSX, and then the cooling fan.

It's probably impossible to do an exact comparison, but I figure the best that can be done is to use the same game on both platforms, and use a game that looks and runs about the same on both. I think a game like Pure would be reasonable. Who knows though, maybe the spu's add little to the overall power price. I wouldn't bother comparing movie playback wattage though. The PS3 is a reference standard dvd/blu-ray player so even if it costs 2x more electric to use, it's still the machine you'd want to use for movie playback regardless.

 

[DrJay24]

So only $10 a year extra if used 5 hours a day.

And if you are not unemployed or a college student it's like a cup of coffee

 

[obonicus]

And if you are not unemployed or a college student it's like a cup of coffee

That's the same argument people use to justify the cost of Live! though. Money's money.

 

[DrJay24]

That's the same argument people use to justify the cost of Live! though. Money's money.

Ok, but this is getting silly. Are you going to bring up the batteries for the controller then? That could be $5+ a month if you play 5 hours a day!

 

[NavNucST3]

I think we can all agree that "value" is highly, if not completely, subjective.
For me, the two major reasons my 360 is a much better value are usability and time.
I can understand what all the settings are on my 360, changing the settings on my sons 360 from xbox.com (family and privacy settings) uses the same clear instructions that are available directly from the console unlike on my PS3 where thankfully I am somewhat of an AV geek so I can comprehend some of the settings like Limited/Full, SuperWhite, but I need to go searching to figure out what the hell the parental settings and NoiseReduction filters mean when they are just a number with no explanation. The many PS services seem like each one is made by disparate teams leading to usability "nightmares".

Time, my biggest pet-peeve, waiting...,I always feel like I have to plan to play my PS3 instead of just being able to turn it on and play. Title updates on my 360 are typically about 4-6 seconds, dashboard updates about 10-30 seconds, whereas, on my PS3 I need to accept a EULA over a couple pages, go throught the download process, then go through the install process which in my cases are anywhere between 10 minutes to what seems like an eternity but I think the longest an update has taken has been over an hour and I get to stare at the lovely % Complete screen, that is just for the firmware and my PSN title updates. Playing games that have mandatory installs like MGS4 just kill it for me, when a game like DMC4 has a 15 minute install on my PS3 but when playing the game on my 360 I get through the first level in 15 minutes (including loading screens) that makes my decision for me about which one I prefer to PLAY GAMES on.