Cherno Reactions Reactions *spawn* [2020]

Didnt know that either, the graphics where not that much better aside from ray tracing so its possible.

 

Yea I do agree it's not going to be winning awards. But it's still looking a lot better than what we saw with IGN. I posted DF pulls from their HVEC encode and it's better than youtube. Find the same stills and do a compare and I'll think you'll see what I'm talking about.

I get you shouldn't need to have HVEC to show the quality of a title, but at the same time, this is still imo, above average of the pack for racing games at the very least when you consider how many titles have been released this generation.

 

Yes, I meant GTS.

 

no worries. Yes I agree. I was thinking the same thing, but you had my attention when you said GT7 was coming to PS4.

 

Some of those screenshots look like they were taken from a tablet running Dirt 5. But then again, PS5 GT7 looks underwhelming in many areas as well.

 

I'll just pick up what my completely untrained eye can notice, as I'm pretty sure there are lots of other problems with those screens:

1st screenshot: those water and mud splash effects are definitely 2D effects and they completely lack any context with the scene's lighting
2nd screenshot: the sun is coming from 1-2 o'clock in our front, yet that building casts zero shadows and stands there with zero context within the scene's light. Not even a shadowmap.
3rd screenshot: Is that solid rock or shiny and wet clay? Material reflection is completely wrong, i.e. cheap.
4th screenshot: again the smoke having no lighting context, appearing super bright be it night or day like it was fairy dust.


You could show me 8K uncompressed screenshots of the game for me to watch on my 65" C9, and I'd see the same glaring problems as I do in a 13" laptop screen at 720p. This is the definition of polishing a turd.

These aren't even artistic or performance choices made to accommodate higher framerates. For some stuff here to come up in anything close to a final product - like that 50 ton worth of landscape rock made up of 6 polygons - they needed to have a lot of people noticing this very obvious horrific scene and thinking meh, IDGAF.

Thank you.

 

Don't do that. Again can sit here and be super critical about how there has to be compromises to make frames. And don't compare replays to gameplay. You can see such a dramatic shift between dust in gameplay and replays for GTS.



I could easily go through Forza and Gran Tourismo and do exactly the same thing.
They all do this. I see no reason to bully Codemasters on this one calling it a turd. In game environment detail is much higher than Forza and GT. Particle effects, as much as you may hate them, are better than Forza and GT.
And as for DC. Well DC is 30fps. If they made Dirt 5 a 30fps game, I'm sure they could have done a lot more as well.

Once again, no one said this is the best looking racing game ever.
But saying this is a mobile game ?
Common, don't be crazy for the sake of winning an argument. The number of cars that can be on the screen at once will invalidate that argument too.

When all your focused on is the car itself, you're going to be surprised how shit everything else looks in a racing game.

Yes the game has compromises. But the game also saves its power for other things. I don't think it's this terrible looking racing title everyone is making it out to be.

 

Leave Forza out of this...

100% agree on the no bullying part, but board members should be able to express their opinions or dissatisfaction even if it's blunt at times.

Oh yeah, leave Forza out this once again...

Not going to lie, some of those cherry-picked screenshots from Unknown Soldier are quite underwhelming, but the game overall looks nice for a cross-generational / multiplatform title.

 

GTS has amazing lighting and great car models (though a lot less detailed ingame than scapes mode) but track details are lower than what is shown in Dirt 5 in my opinion.
FH4 would be a better comparison, but even on XBX FH4 has more pop in issues.

 

I can’t help but think of DFs power measurements on t he Series X for this title and wonder if they really did or just left it on the table. 160W was it, VS patched Gears 5 pushing over 200W?

Maybe we’ll see Dirt being patched up on a future update as well, clearly there seems to be some power budget to spare .

I do wonder about the 4 player split screen mode though!

 

I took the screenshots and the videos from the DF video. That seemed like gameplay to me. What's your point?
Besides, my criticism is being done towards very poor quality effects (2D water and mud effects in 2020!..) and very low quality assets. How is that going to change between replay and gameplay?

And you're free to do so, on e.g. a dedicated thread. I actually encourage you to do that, it could bring a very fruitful discussion.

I suggest you stop with the excessive watchdogging because IIRC this is something you've done in the past, and it only served to generate unnecessary attrition over mutually respectful conversations.

My "polishing a turd" expression was very obviously used to explain why your constant callouts for others to watch better quality videos are a worthless effort for the IQ problems being pointed out:

Watching a very high quality video stream won't make 2D effects into 3D ones, nor will it increase geometry.

No one is bullying Codemasters here. I'm simply pointing out the flaws I'm seeing, and I'm putting them in an open forum discussion. I'm not tweeting insults to developers nor sending them harsh e-mails.
If forum users couldn't point out their opinion on graphics effects here, then this forum would be just useless pampering. You have resetera for that.

Your willingness to point this out as "bullying" seems like the real concern here. Are you trying to censor other people's opinions on how good graphics look like in a videogame?

Absolutely not, from what I'm seeing. Dirt 5 to me looks pretty terrible in comparison to Forza Horizon 4 or GT Sport footage, especially in particle effects.

Here's a screenshot showing the white dust/smoke from the tires in Forza Horizon 4. It's being light by the sun where there's sun, and then darkened when it's in the shade. It's years apart from the bland dust effects seen in Dirt 5.









But feel free to show specific examples on how Dirt 5's effects are much better than Horizon 4 or GT Sport like you claim. We're here to discuss these things and argue with examples.

 

Gts at launch looked worse than it is now though. And those dirt5 footage are from an unfinished product.

 

Dirt 5 has particles being affected by lighting from the sun, point lights, spot lights, and shadow maps just like those Forza screenshots. It is why the head lights light up the snow particles obviously in Tom's video. It is also why the particles change their lighting intensity when entering and leaving shadow as in my screenshots below from Tom's video:



The difference is that the particle art itself is not as large and opaque and "exaggerated" as those screens you provided from Forza. There is even a part in Tom's video where you can clearly see how the player character car is casting shadows from the very low sunset onto the particles ejecting from the cars in front of it.

 

Well, we're a community here. Communities should govern their own behaviour, it's why we ask people to pick up after their dogs, and teach our kids to say please and thank you.
Every community offers something different, I'm only asking for mature discourse in which things aren't a binary "it's a mobile game" to "it's the best looking game there is".
In a discussion where I agree from the very start with others and the Cherno that Dirt 5 is not a next gen looking game, I came back to combat his claim whether this was mobile game. Showing how video quality will address those arguments around texturing and pop-in. And in a discussion of that, you continue to defend Cherno and therefore his stance that his words are agreeable.

It's totally fine to go to bat for him because you respect him, but I'm asking for objectivity. In a debate whether this looks like a mobile title, it is inappropriate to bring in the top of the line console racing games as comparison. In a debate among 60fps racers, you should not be bringing in 30fps racers. Go look up Forza 7 in the rain and tell me how great their particle effects are.

I'm not censoring you by asking you to cut that type of behaviour out. Police and the laws do censorship. I'm asking you to elevate your discourse from operating at only extremities. You want to put out an opinion on graphics, I'm politely asking you to increase your grading from the 2 options, Mobile Game or Best Racer ever, to something with 8 other gradings in-between because that's mature technical discussion. You want to talk about graphics you talk about how they did it differently from the rest or if they didn't manage to accomplish it at all.

You call my watchdogging negative or useless pampering but it appears to me you don't recognize the value of it.
This is a forum in which grows very slightly compared to others, not because B3D doesn't get views, not because we have a technical problem with getting more members but because people are intimidated by the higher level of technical discourse of this forum. There by keeping our standards of discussion higher and more objective, we have installed a gate in which most people will not opt to join us by their own decision. This is the nature of this forum, there is a reason why people link to the forum but refuse to participate in it. If you lower that discussion level, you lower the gate for more to come in who have no a flipping clue what they are talking about. When you lower that level of discussion, the industry leaves this forum. It's that simple.

All of us here should be actively looking out for our own community to ensure that we aren't destroying it. It's no different than asking people to pick up their own litter. The environment we keep here at B3D also determines which inhabitants stay here.

You find another forum like this one and tell me about it. Gamedev.net might be the closest thing you have. MJP doesn't even moderate here and we lost Andrew L and Shifty now. Sebbbi is gone. Max McCullen is gone. We got Graham here and he's stopped moderating as well. Our industry folks are leaving at an alarming rate.

This isn't about sucking up to industry. It's literally the culture of this forum that we have been losing year over year; if we lose it, is there any point?

And to be clear, I'm asking you. Not forcing you. I have no power. I'm asking you to join me in making this forum better and if that requires discussion, then I'm more than open to that.

 

I agree with Iroboto, ive calmed down alot too, been reacting off too much before cause in my view some where way too much 'only sony does right'. I think most of us here can appreciate all platforms for what they are. I do as a pc gamer, its my top platform, but i still need a PS5 for the games there, and an xsx cant be beaten with anything 3 times less the money on a pc.

Learn to appreciate platforms you dont plan on having aswell. I think things like the above discussion has alot to do with because there seems a need to compare everything to sony exclusives. Ive seen the same thing happen to assasins creed games, halo etc.

 

I think he game looks like a cross gen games but saying this is a mobile game is dishonest. Will Forza Horizon 5, Forza and GT7 or GT8 look better, I am sure of it but this is not the same budget and the title I talk about will not be cross gen.

Halo Infinite is not looking good. All people were thinking the same being journalist, players the same.

This has nothing to do with being a Sony exclusives. For example find the release code of AC Valhalla to look pretty good, one of the best looking cross gen games. Or the two Ori are Xbox, PC and Switch games and they look very good.



Knack is a Sony exclusives and the game is not looking very good.

EDIT2:
Gaming is a sharing industry from the creative point of view. At the beginning of the gen, some progress are made on the technical side the first part of the gen but end of gen impressive title are the one with the biggest budget and crunch RDR2 or TLOU2.

Another things gamers forget a lot the visual splendor of a game comes from the job of artists and technical artists. There is a reason, this presentation was about technical art.
http://advances.realtimerendering.com/s2020/NaughtyDog_TechArt_TLOU2-final.pptx

 

People still hung up on title of video and not the content.
Think I'll double down on not coming in to this thread as I held this forum up to a higher standard.

 

I think Codemasters dev find the title insulting. This is pure clickbait. It kills the most subtle video content and if it was just forumer, he is an ex game dev. Shameful.