cd-r recording and speed

[mito]

I have this old Creative CDRW 12-10-32x. It works fine and I don't need more speed. 12x is enough since I use it seldom.

However, some issues bother me. For example, I purchased a pack of Sony CD-R's. I couldn't record anything at 12x (nero displays a message "fix session error" at the very beginning). Had to lower the speed to 8x and in one case to 4x. Was this caused by low quality media?

Also, is there a relation of recording audio cd's using low speed to avoid playback errors?

 

[Redeemer]

I have the same problem with Nero. Actually Nero determines the best speed to ensure that the data being burnt is error free, Nero looks at you drive and media. Take into consideration however that some burners are picky with media. My DVD burner burns CD-R's at 48X max. When I use HP CD-R's it only burns at 32X, but when I pop in a verbatim disc it burns at 48X. Some media doesn't burn at the speeds it suggest. Also try to update firmware.

 

[mito]

I have the same problem with Nero. Actually Nero determines the best speed to ensure that the data being burnt is error free, Nero looks at you drive and media. Take into consideration however that some burners are picky with media. My DVD burner burns CD-R's at 48X max. When I use HP CD-R's it only burns at 32X, but when I pop in a verbatim disc it burns at 48X. Some media doesn't burn at the speeds it suggest. Also try to update firmware.

Therefore there's a relation between media quality and cdrw firmware behaviour.

I just can't believe that the Sony CD-R would be discriminated by Nero and my old Creative.

 

[Pete]

I haven't looked into this in a while, but it's been recommended that you only use Made in Japan CD-Rs for longevity and quality. That means Fuji CD-Rs for me (in the USA). I've seen some Memorex CD-Rs also Made in Japan, but this isn't consistent across their lines (IIRC, their Music 10-pks were Japan, whereas the Music 30-pks were Taiwan or something).

Sony doesn't necessarily make their own CD-Rs. They may just rebrand another company's products, as many CD-R/W sellers do.

It's quite possible your drive is failing, though.

 

[mito]

It's quite possible your drive is failing, though.

You're a defeatist!

 

[Pete]

Heh, I wouldn't have given up on my constantly-failing-at-Lead-out 2x2x6 Memorex had there not been a class-action suit which rewarded me with a new (rebranded Lite-On) 40x CD-RW. Although I do use any software possible to limit speed to 12x, as that's the fastest the drive will go while still being silent.

Anyway, just buy some of those Fuji CD-Rs and see if the problem persists. It's money well spent, as you're getting good media for use in any drive.

 

[Zaphod]

I have the same problem with Nero. Actually Nero determines the best speed to ensure that the data being burnt is error free, Nero looks at you drive and media. Take into consideration however that some burners are picky with media. My DVD burner burns CD-R's at 48X max. When I use HP CD-R's it only burns at 32X, but when I pop in a verbatim disc it burns at 48X. Some media doesn't burn at the speeds it suggest. Also try to update firmware.

Therefore there's a relation between media quality and cdrw firmware behaviour.

I just can't believe that the Sony CD-R would be discriminated by Nero and my old Creative.

It's more likely that the drive is so old that it doesn't know the mediacode for any recent CDR that you'll be able to buy and is falling back to a general strategy. Those unfortunately wasn't always all that great back then, and it might also be the case that the dyes uses in a significant portion of today's discs wasn't even around when the firmware for the drive was made.

If you can figure out what ODM Creative used for that drive (they used multiple, even for the 'same' model; yours is probably a Plextor PX-W1210TA or a LiteOn LTR-12101B) there might be much more recent firmware around for it and a crossflash could be possible. Creative was horrible at releasing firmware for their drives. This might improve compatability with newer media. If not your best bet is to find a manufacturer (not brand) that works well and stick with it, or bite the bullet and invest in a new burner.

 

[mito]

Interesting what you wrote Zaphod.

What exactly is "mediacode"? Google was to no avail.

In essence, shouldn't CDR media, either old or recent tech, be the same?

I accept the fact the my Creative cdrw is very old, however, I've had no problems with it. Only these "made in taiwan" Sonys. Everything else was burnt ok.

 

[mito]

There's also the audio issue. Is it recommended to burn audio at low speeds in order to have a "good burning" and thus error free playback? Please apologize my newbie questions.

 

[BRiT]

What exactly is "mediacode"?

Try "media code". In short its:
Media Identification (MID) codes
A MID code is a code to identify the manufacturer and the media technology used in the disc. This is important for trace-back purposes and for optimization of write strategies used in a drive. The use of the MID code is mandatory for Orange Book part II vol 2 (multispeed CD-R discs), Orange Book part III vols 2 and 3 (high speed and ultra speed CD-RW discs) and High Capacity Recordable Discs. To obtain a MID code , fill in the application form below.

In short, it's a code stored in the ATIP of the CD-R(w) for the manufacturer and the media technology used.

Have a look around: http://www.cdrinfo.com/

EDIT It seems like some creative units are either Plextor models or LiteOn models.
Read over here: http://www.neoseeker.com/forums/index.php?fn=view_thread&t=26946
or here: http://www.neoseeker.com/forums/index.php?fn=view_thread&t=2196 .

 

[Zaphod]

There's also the audio issue. Is it recommended to burn audio at low speeds in order to have a "good burning" and thus error free playback?

No. This might have been true back in the days where CD-R was reasonably new technology and most home players had lasers that were not calibrated for reading recordable media. The special audio blanks that were insanely expensive 5+ years ago used to have dyes that were more easily read by any old player, but today this really isn't an issue. There might also be some remainder of myths caused by the fact that early studio (and home) CD-audio (only) recorders remained low speed for a longer time than than the multipurpose PC equipment and some of the 'normal' discs didn't work too well (or at all as they might look for a CD-audio ID) on those when home recording speed started to pick up. Thus the 'special' CD-audio discs were always rated for low speed, not because it was always better to record audio on low speed, but because the recorders that would only accept such meda couldn't record any faster.

Today you'll rather find that the effect is the exact opposite. Technology has matured, media are tuned for higher speed, and due to limited firmware space write strategies for the lower speeds have been eliminated. There are really no reason to burn at anything lower than 32X on any recent (less than, say, 3 years old) burner/media.

 

[mito]

Thanks again Zaphod. Really made my mind.

 

[mito]

Media FAQ

High speed vs low speed burning

 

[Zaphod]

Damn. I had totally forgotten about the CD-audio royaly thingy. I remember now how that, along with the recording speed question caused quite a debate back in the day. If you google a bit (allthough I really wouldn't bother) you'll probably still find some ancient manufacturesrs FAQs detailing how their special discs and dye is (was) the most compatible with any reader and so forth. I still have some old whitepapers lying around somewhere and the last time i checked at least Kodak had the old stuff online. From when the their 'gold' disks where more than $5 a piece and hailed as the greatest.

I totally recommend the CD-freaks forums for anyting optical storage related, though. They're high volume, mostly low noise and there have been an amazing amount of software and mods to make life easier for owners of CD/DVD writers to spring from that place. Even for old stuff it's just to ask. The people there may have moved on to several burners and projects since way then, but they still have the tools and knowledge lying around to share how to mod (for example) a Creative 4-4-24 into a Ricoh 7060A (one of the greats way back when (1998?)).

Sorry for the off-topic reminiscence.

 

[mito]

I totally recommend the CD-freaks forums for anyting optical storage related, though. They're high volume, mostly low noise and there have been an amazing amount of software and mods to make life easier for owners of CD/DVD writers to spring from that place.

Zaphod,

Have you used optical medias and devices? Please elaborate further.

Thank you again.

 

[Zaphod]

Optical media: As in anything read by light (in other words a laser), as opposed to magnetic storage. CD, CD-R(W), DVD, DVD-RAM, DVD-R(W), DVD+R(W), Blu-ray... Sure, I've used them (except for the latter). Not sure I understand the question.

 

[mito]

Optical media: As in anything read by light (in other words a laser), as opposed to magnetic storage. CD, CD-R(W), DVD, DVD-RAM, DVD-R(W), DVD+R(W), Blu-ray... Sure, I've used them (except for the latter). Not sure I understand the question.

Sorry.... Newbie in the area.

What is "blu-ray"?

 

[pegisys]

well I noticed this same problem that when I had gotten a dvd burner with some media I couldn't burn at full speed but I found that it was becuase I didn't have the transfer mode set to dma after I changed it I could burn at full speed. well that my or my not be the case but I think it's worth checking

 

[Zaphod]

Sorry.... Newbie in the area.

What is "blu-ray"?

It's a next generation product currently competing with another format, HD-DVD, as to which one of them will be the dominant disc for high definition content in the years to come. Not to different from the DVD+R vs. DVD-R or even Betamax vs. VHS conflicts in the past.