Can Wii achieve the same level of Xbox's Doom3?

[ken_masters]

What do u think? it's capable to get an equal of Xbox version?

 

[vanquish]

It would be possible to do, but might not look as good, though that would depend on whether it's a port (like the Xbox version was) or they rewrite large portions of the code to optimise it for Wii.

I don't think the Wii's 'Hollywood' GPU is as good as the NV2A, it doesn't have programmable shaders, so the normal mapping extensively used in Doom 3 would be harder to replicate.

And though they have similar clock speeds, the Xbox CPU has Out of Order execution compared to the In Order execution on the Wii CPU.

 

[Gitaroo]

wii ports of xbox1 games never look as good as xbox version, like house of the dead 3, farcry, Ghost Squad (based on chihiro the xbox arcade board). Far cry and Ghost Squad looks horrible on the wii compare to the xbox, because they probably use alot of shaders. I dont think we will ever see games like Doom 3 or especially Riddick that use normal map for everything on the wii.

 

[Mobius1aic]

I think John Carmack hinted at Doom 3 being possible on the Gamecube, had it been equipped with more RAM to handle it, so it's possible the Wii could play a decent looking build of it.

 

[Asher]

It would be possible to do, but might not look as good, though that would depend on whether it's a port (like the Xbox version was) or they rewrite large portions of the code to optimise it for Wii.

I don't think the Wii's 'Hollywood' GPU is as good as the NV2A, it doesn't have programmable shaders, so the normal mapping extensively used in Doom 3 would be harder to replicate.

And though they have similar clock speeds, the Xbox CPU has Out of Order execution compared to the In Order execution on the Wii CPU.

The Wii (and GameCube) CPUs are out of order, not in order.

 

[vanquish]

The Wii (and GameCube) CPUs are out of order, not in order.

Isn't it a Power PC core, like the ones in the PS3 and 360 which are both in order processors?.

Another hurdle is that the Wii's GPU only supports outdated 24-bit frame buffer formats, which leads to lots of dithering in games.

 

[Asher]

Isn't it a Power PC core, like the ones in the PS3 and 360 which are both in order processors?.

PowerPC is just an ISA, like x86. It's a very different chip from the cores on the PS3 and 360.

The GameCube and Wii CPUs are both derived from the PowerPC 750 series of chips. More commonly known as the "G3", which Apple used for a while. They are out-of-order execution cores.

 

[vanquish]

PowerPC is just an ISA, like x86. It's a very different chip from the cores on the PS3 and 360.

The GameCube and Wii CPUs are both derived from the PowerPC 750 series of chips. More commonly known as the "G3", which Apple used for a while. They are out-of-order execution cores.

Oh ok, thanks for explaining, was under the impression that all three next gen consoles had in order processors.

 

[Megadrive1988]

Could Wii do a version of DOOM 3 ? Yes.

Would it look as good as the Xbox version? No and Yes. In some areas it would look worse, in some areas it would be better. The Xbox is better at shaders than Wii since Wii does not have true pixel shaders, but Wii does have slightly higher fillrate and overall better graphics bandwidth than Xbox, and significantly more RAM, about 50% more. Wii is not the ideal machine for Doom 3 but with clever programming, playing to Wii's architecture, it could be done.

 

[Nano]

The only real challenge would be the normal mapping. Few know the extent by which the effect can be used in games, in this case such that every single object and surface uses it.

 

[Kiloran]

The only real challenge would be the normal mapping. Few know the extent by which the effect can be used in games, in this case such that every single object and surface uses it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Doom 3's look and mood was by in whole a product of ID's innovative stencil shadow technique. The Wii's already limited fillrate would be largely consumed just trying to render the shadows alone in this game.

 

[pc999]

What do u think? it's capable to get an equal of Xbox version?

What do you mean? using the same tech? Then no, something arent even suported in Wii (eg vertex shaders). But using others tech I would say that yes, there are several games that use shadows at least as good, normal mapping and many others technics (althought very few use all of them), so you would probably could get a similar look, not equal and so not possible to say if it is at the same level.

Anyway one most understand that they are very diferent machines, XGPU really suits D3, but I guess that XB would have hard time doing The Conduit (specially if it really end with 60FPS), not saing that one is better just ilustrating the diferences, as diferent tech suits one or the other, even if it is to implement the "same fx".

If you are really going to use the HW you will get diferent looking games.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Doom 3's look and mood was by in whole a product of ID's innovative stencil shadow technique. The Wii's already limited fillrate would be largely consumed just trying to render the shadows alone in this game.

Given Hollywood clock speeds alone Wii should have somewhat (really litle) more filrate, but I reacal that Factor 5 guy once said something about Wii´s great filrate, none know if it is just from the speed bump or not.

 

[pc999]

The only real challenge would be the normal mapping. Few know the extent by which the effect can be used in games, in this case such that every single object and surface uses it.

There is games here just plain bump mapping achived a as good result (to D3, at least XB version of normal mapping).

I wonder why is that the case?

 

[Kiloran]

Given Hollywood clock speeds alone Wii should have somewhat (really litle) more filrate, but I reacal that Factor 5 guy once said something about Wii´s great filrate, none know if it is just from the speed bump or not.

But shadow mapping is accelerated on the Geforce cards (starting with GF3). AFAIK there is no acceleration on the Nintendo card - hence why so many Wii games use blob shadows.

 

[Iron Tiger]

wii ports of xbox1 games never look as good as xbox version, like house of the dead 3, farcry, Ghost Squad (based on chihiro the xbox arcade board). Far cry and Ghost Squad looks horrible on the wii compare to the xbox, because they probably use alot of shaders.

Far Cry looking bad is not an indication of the hardware's capabilities. Ubisoft has already confessed that the ill-conceived launch window ports were just rushed cash-ins.

 

[ken_masters]

Thx guys for your answers.

 

[Statix]

Could Wii do a version of DOOM 3 ? Yes.

Would it look as good as the Xbox version? No and Yes. In some areas it would look worse, in some areas it would be better. The Xbox is better at shaders than Wii since Wii does not have true pixel shaders, but Wii does have slightly higher fillrate and overall better graphics bandwidth than Xbox, and significantly more RAM, about 50% more. Wii is not the ideal machine for Doom 3 but with clever programming, playing to Wii's architecture, it could be done.

It would likely look pretty far removed from what originally made Doom 3 look "Doom 3-ish" in the first place, which is normal/bump-mapping, specular (gloss) mapping, and lots of dynamic lighting and dynamic stencil shadows.

I just don't see the Wii being able to pull all or most those core D3-tech engine elements off, especially the texture shaders and the dynamic stencil shadows. The closest game to D3's level of shader intensity that I think we've seen on the Wii has been only Ubisoft's Red Steel, and even that didn't look as advanced (to my eyes) and didn't run nearly as smoothly. Have we even seen one single Gamecube or Wii game that utilized dynamic stencil shadow-casting lights?

 

[Mobius1aic]

If you want a good example of highly shadered games on the GC and Wii: Super Mario Sunshine, Rogue Squadron Games, Resident Evil 4, Super Mario Galaxy. SMG is especially amazing, since it's using ass loads of EMBM at 60 FPS. The problem is whether or not this translates to capability in using other types of shaders such as normal mapping, where the sad case I'm sure is no since the CPU must be brought in to augment the situation and make normal mapping possible such as in Dewy's Adventure and The Conduit, which takes CPU power away that could otherwise do other important tasks. The Xbox luckily had everything nice and seperated in terms of tasks. It's just not that simple on the GC and Wii.

After seeing large scale shadowing in the new Wii Overlord title, I do think Doom 3 at least in shadows and polygonal rate is most definitely possible. Bring bump mapping and normal mapping into the equation really changes things. I'd honestly leave out the normal mapping and go bump map only since the GC and Wii readily support it. I remember hearing as well that the Gamecube could actually equal if not surpass the Xbox in vanilla bump mapping and EMBM as it was configured to have the ability to perform it at higher average framerates. I could be wrong, but I wouldn't be too hard pressed to believe it especially after playing Super Mario Galaxy. If the GC can equal the Xbox in that regard, the Wii should blow it away, especially in real world situations with much more memory available and higher memory bandwidth to boot.

 

[Fafalada]

Have we even seen one single Gamecube or Wii game that utilized dynamic stencil shadow-casting lights?

I'm not sure, but Spiderman 2 should have used them (PS2 and XBox did).
At any rate, Wii has 1GPix of fill with eDram. If a 950MPix NV2a could do those shadows, so could Wii.

 

[Statix]

I'm not sure, but Spiderman 2 should have used them (PS2 and XBox did).
At any rate, Wii has 1GPix of fill with eDram. If a 950MPix NV2a could do those shadows, so could Wii.

But it's not just a simple matter of stated performance specifications, is it? I know that the specific Nvidia chip inside the Xbox 1 had eccentricities to it that, if a developer were to specifically target and optimize for it, allowed the Xbox to achieve good performance with some advanced pixel and vertex shaders than a generic PC part of similar generation/line could pull off.

I still remember an old GamePro magazine interview awhile back with Vicarious Visions, the company that ported D3 to Xbox, in which the devs referenced some "hidden instructions" and "back-door hacks that gave an opening with the Nvidia chip" that yielded some "big performance improvements," according to them.

Another quote from the article: "By writing custom pixel shaders for the Xbox hardware, the Vicarious team reduced the number of rendering [passes] from seven to four without losing acuity," with acuity referring to the port's preservation of "all the rendering passes [of the PC version], although done a bit differently."