Building a new system: which GPU?

M

mangrove

Newcomer
Hi gang. I am now seriously considering throwing out my system (original BH-6 mobo, PIII 800 MHz, GF2GTS :D ) and replacing it with something more... elegant. The new system will be Conroe based and built for optimum "stock" performance, no overclocking, no fancy schmanzy stuff. The objective is high performance and very low noise. This will be built in a Silverstone LC14M chassi, which hasn't got the best airflow.

Now, I don't game much nowadays, but I'd still like to try some of the newer games I couldn't run on my current PIII machine (as you can see that's not many modern ones!). However, I'm not interested in forking out that much for a graphics card. I have looked at the passively cooled market and in the sub-$200 segment there are:
ATI x550 (is this an older generation?)
ATI x1300
ATI x1600 (although hard to find passively cooled)
...and a number of nVidia offerings, all with incomprehensible numbering (I understand the first number is the generation, and the second number increases with performance, but how does a 6600 compare to a 7200 or whatnot). I haven't followed the graphics industry for almost a year which means I am hopelessly outdated, I simply don't know which price/performance class specific chips are in, what is new, what is old, what is hot and what is cool ;-)

Someone willing to help me out a bit here? :)
 
If you're looking at those kinds of cards you may as well consider integrated solutions too, and if you want advice about building real quiet systems, go here.
 
nutball said:
If you're looking at those kinds of cards you may as well consider integrated solutions too
Click to expand...

Um. Which integrated solutions come even close to offering the performance of a x1300 or x1600?
 
you're not usually going to find anything that performs well that's passively cooled, and is cheap. Another problem is, by going Conroe, your IGP options are really going to suck at this point. In a month or so, you should have a lot more options. I'm assuming from your chassis choice that you're interested in something HTPCish? so you might want to try: 9600 AIW. The gaming won't be very good, but it will crush your GF2GTS! ;) Otherwise, for pure graphics, try this gigabyte heatpiped 7600gt. ATi options: (x1600xt) (x1600 pro).
 
I think a GeForce 7600gt or Radeon x1600xt are probably about the fastest graphic cards you can get with "reasonable" passive cooling. Anything with more heat output gets really troublesome for passive cooling (and actually even the cards mentioned above might be problematic with no airflow, but not much airflow should be needed - of course depends on the actual cooling design too).
The 7600gt is faster than a x1600xt and seems to draw less power too (see http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/power-noise.html).
Of course there might be differences with different cards with the same chip.
A 7600gs should also be a decent card easy to cool passively, though performance (and power draw) vary by almost a factor of two due to the possible very different frequencies of both gpu and ram and the different ram types used.
I wouldn't bother with last-generation cards, as the newer ones seem to be at least as energy-efficient (though as entry-level you might consider a x550, you can get very cheap ones passively cooled, though the passively cooled ones often are half-height and have only 64bit memory bus which drops their performance to igp levels).
 
RussSchultz said:
I have an X800-XL that's passively cooled.

Or is that old skool now?
Click to expand...
Well, since he wants to buy it, it might be hard for him. But it does bring up a good point - ebay! Ebay is littered with videocards that enthusiasts want to sell to get better cards. Most of them are in good condition, I just play it safe and I've never been burned yet. Unless RS wants to sell you his -- I'd bet it's been babied! ;D

edit: whoooops!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Thanks guys, very good info. Yes, I am indeed looking at something HTPCish, but as I won't be retiring my Maxtor Atlas 10kIV SCSI disks there will still be some noise! ;) I realize that I probably will have to enhance the airflow over the graphics card in some way, but that's OK as long as I'm not forced to use the whiny small fans.

Integrated graphics is not an option. Nor is eBay, I'm in Sweden, and the AIW products are also not easily or cheaply available here, plus I already have a working Hauppauge TV card.

How about 7600GS, is it significantly slower than GT? There are lots of passively cooled GS cards, more than GT. How about performance compared to x1600? I've never been too hot about nVidia, to tell the truth. I'm a PowerVR guy. ;)
 
ok, just as a note on GPU fans, my 6800GT's fan is nearly inadubile (After i got an 80MM fan situated near it, and yes, 6800GT's are nearly impossible to find (esp the Leadtek, and if you see a pic, you can see WHY the fan stays at below 55% 24/7))

so, beyond that, the 7600GS isn't tons slower, but it isn't right on the GT's flanks, Leadtek and XFX have OC'd GS' @ 520MHZ, and 500MHZ, respectively, and the RAM @ 900MHZ on both (stock is 400/800, the GT is 560/1400, so i'd say the relationship is probably similar to the 5900XT / 5900 Ultra relationship, the RAM is the only limiting factor)

that passive 7800GT would be wicked, but it probably costs a fortune (just knowing what Asus charges for those things)
 
mangrove said:
How about 7600GS, is it significantly slower than GT?
Click to expand...
Yes, amazingly so. I got both.

Then again I got an XFX 7600GS and the XFX 7600GT XXX, and I'm pretty sure the 7600GT XXX is about the fastest 7600GT card out there.
 
mangrove said:
How about 7600GS, is it significantly slower than GT? There are lots of passively cooled GS cards, more than GT. How about performance compared to x1600? I've never been too hot about nVidia, to tell the truth. I'm a PowerVR guy. ;)
Click to expand...
It really depends how much slower a 7600gs is to a 7600gt. Clock speeds for 7600gt are usually all about the same (some cards get clocked slightly faster though), but the 7600gs is an entirely different matter. Some cards are quite a bit closer to a 7600gt than others (though mostly due to slower ram some difference always remains).
Stock clocks of 7600gt are (core/mem) 560Mhz/1400Mhz.
Clocks of 7600gs range from 400-550Mhz (core - 400 is the most common value but there are cards available with pretty much any clock between 400 and 550Mhz (core) and 540-1000Mhz for memory (though 540 seems to be an outlier for a 512MB card, usually 800Mhz is the lowest you can find).
So yes a 7600gs is always slower than a 7600gt, but it should also be noted that a "standard" 7600gs (400Mhz core / 800Mhz ram) can be passively cooled with just a "normal", (single-slot, no space needed behind neither) passive heatsink not requiring (make it more expensive) heatpipes or anything like that.
btw I really wouldn't recommend a 7800gt passively cooled. It is slower and has a higher power draw than a 7900gt.
As for comparison with x1600xt, a 7600gs at standard clocks is about as fast as the x1600xt (despite the former having almost two times the ram bandwidth). If you want to use it for a HTPC there might be more things to consider than raw 3d performance, however...
 
"I am now seriously considering throwing out my system (original BH-6 mobo, PIII 800 MHz, GF2GTS "

Woah - Lets not be too hasty now :D
 
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