Building a cheap PC, and I've a question about...

[zidane1strife]

Ok, I'm building a cheap pc, with decent stats for most stuff(dvd-rw 2GB ram, and 320GB Hdd. nforce4, nice case, etc), but given the advent of dual-cores and the upcoming gphx cards, I'm going to be settling for a relatively weak cpu(athlon 64 2800+)+gpu(undecided $130) combo in order to keeps the overall cost extremely low.

My choices for gpu are the geforce 6600 256MB from xfx, and the 256MB x700 from powercolor(both at $129). I'd like to know which ones you guys'd recommend me.

From what I understand the x700 is a better buy for it performs better. But I want passive cooling, which I'm not sure if it has. And I'm not sure if the Ultra shadow stuff from nvidia will help compensate on future s/w, or if their video processor will make a difference while playing vids on my pc(I like to watch wmvs while viewing several dozen ie/mozilla pages...). Also I'm not sure if there'd be an advantage in terms of compatibility with the nforce 4 in favor of the nforce 4.

I know the gf6600 has ps/vs3.0 but I'm not sure if that's so useful for a low-budget card.

thanks in advance,
Zidane

PS keep in mind I like gphx demos, and I like nvidia's best.

 

[RussSchultz]

If you're going the athlon route, definately get a socket 939/MB.

 

[mito]

90 nm.

 

[RussSchultz]

That too. The 3000+ venice was only $150, which seems just slightly more than your budget of $130.

 

[zidane1strife]

Well, the motherboard I'm getting has that socket, it is very cheap, it's a 78.50 nforce 4 from ecs, supposedly I'm just giving up -sata II(according to extreme tech's review, but strangely it's listed on the specs so I'm not sure about that.), non-optimal floppy disk connection on m/b, overclocking capabilities- for that low price.


I'm also getting the venice 3000+ for 146.00.

PS sorry for the wording, the 130 is the budget for the gpu only. I'd pay no more than $200 for the cpu. But it has to be low-power/heat/quiet fan. I'm waiting until the dual-cores become cheaper, and for a next-gen good(long-lasting good price/perfomance ratio) 200 or below gpu arrives.

PPS

Most of the stuff I do on my pc is work/net related, and I also watch lots of vids in it which is why I was considering the geforce 6600. Passive cooling, video processor(if it works). But I'm still worried about the performance difference between the x700 and the g6600. Will ps/vs3.0 support or at least the ultra-shadow h/w help make up for it in future games?

 

[poopypoo]

...even if you don't use those features anytime soon, the reviews I have read seem to show the 6600gt spanking the x700p in most games. The card takes a bigger hit from AA and AF, but still manages to eke ahead even in these cases. So I can't really see why you'd buy an x700 Pro.

 

[Diplo]

When you say you are getting a 6600 I hope you mean a 6600GT? If so then I see nothing wrong with your choices - both CPU and GPU offer very good bang-for-buck.

 

[zidane1strife]

Well, I originally meant a plain 6600... but now after seeing a few reviews, I've decided I've to choose between plain x700 with 256MB, and 6600GT with 128MB. The GT is 30$ more expensive than the x700 and has less ram, which is why I'm now thinking on taking the ati board but I'd like to hear what you guys think.

Is the performance difference substantial, aka 2x or more despite the ram difference(I'm not paying 30$ for 30%improvement provided the x700 provides playable framerates)? or should I just take the plain x700? ( x700 is at 119, and 6600GT is at 149) Or can I get a gt with 256MB of ram for <$160~ from a non-ebay-auction trustworthy location?

 

[trinibwoy]

Well, I originally meant a plain 6600... but now after seeing a few reviews, I've decided I've to choose between plain x700 with 256MB, and 6600GT with 128MB. The GT is 30$ more expensive than the x700 and has less ram, which is why I'm now thinking on taking the ati board but I'd like to hear what you guys think.

Is the performance difference substantial, aka 2x or more despite the ram difference(I'm not paying 30$ for 30%improvement provided the x700 provides playable framerates)? or should I just take the plain x700? ( x700 is at 119, and 6600GT is at 149) Or can I get a gt with 256MB of ram for <$160~ from a non-ebay-auction trustworthy location?

Haha you're asking for a lot. The 6600GT 128MB is still your best bet. The 256MB on the x700 is meaningless since it helps only at high resolutions where these cards are usually unplayable anyway. Even then the 6600GT is often faster at those resolutions. I would stay away from the 6600 and x700 as the bang for the buck is much better with the GT and Pro.

To answer your question the 6600GT is definitely more than $30 better than a vanilla x700 256MB.

 

[Tim]

Well, I originally meant a plain 6600... but now after seeing a few reviews, I've decided I've to choose between plain x700 with 256MB, and 6600GT with 128MB. The GT is 30$ more expensive than the x700 and has less ram, which is why I'm now thinking on taking the ati board but I'd like to hear what you guys think.

One thing is that most 6600GTs are noisy and you will most likely want to replace the cooler if you want a silent system. Other than the noise the 6600GT is a great card. (Expertool from Gainward can help, also if you card is not from Gainward)

I have read that the x700 are just as noisy (or worse), but I have not any personal experience with them.

 

[{Sniping}Waste]

Found this referb from newegg. Its a X800 256 meg card for $186. Its much better the a x700 or 6600GT. The X700 and 6600GT are 8 pixle pipline cards and the X800 is 12 pipes.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102493R

 

[zidane1strife]

Wow, that one seems interesting. But I was wondering about the refurbishing. Doesn't that mean it's used and returned, or does it mean something else? I've never bought refurbished h/w before, is the difference between it and non-refurb minimal?

BTW, is a 1920x1440x65Hz CRT monitor capable of 1920x1080 at 60fps as the specs suggest? Would such be acceptable for use with HDtv/ps3/x360/future-gpus?

 

[Pete]

1920*1440*60/1920/1080=86.7Hz. So, such a monitor should be able to support 85Hz at 19x10.

AFAIK, NewEgg is pretty good with refrubs. If it doesn't work, you can RMA it for another. Contact them to make sure you can also return it and get your money back (possibly minus the return shipping fee). A 256MB X800 sounds great for $186, at least compared to a ~$150+ 6600GT. Actually, 256MB 6800s refurbs should also be around that price, too, no? I wonder how they compare, given that they have slower clocks all around.

Refurb typically means someone returned it. Whether b/c it was defective or they didn't want it, who knows? Don't count on getting anything but the card, though I've read of quite a few people who've received the whole bundle.

 

[poopypoo]

wow, yeah. sorry i flubbed that one and didn't even read it right -- it never occurred to me someone might want the non GT version ^^;; also, zidane... I'm reading the same reviews you are XD i don't own any of them, so I can't say beyond what I read but, yeah, the 6600GT is really a better buy. However, if the $30 is worth it to you, then, I do think the x700 provides playable framerates in almost all games. The difference is that the 6600GT has the horsepower to futureproof itself for another six months to a year, and the x700 doesn't. Both will be able to play games for awhile, but I'd say the 6600GT will last you a bit longer.

that x800 for $180... that's mighty tempting. i have bought refurbs from newegg before, with no problems. I have in fact bought new stuff that's been DOA and never had a prob with a refurb so I am usually willing to take the risk, if it's for a significant savings. Their RMA policy is second to none.

 

[zidane1strife]

wow, yeah. sorry i flubbed that one and didn't even read it right -- it never occurred to me someone might want the non GT version ^^;; also, zidane... I'm reading the same reviews you are XD i don't own any of them, so I can't say beyond what I read but, yeah, the 6600GT is really a better buy. However, if the $30 is worth it to you, then, I do think the x700 provides playable framerates in almost all games. The difference is that the 6600GT has the horsepower to futureproof itself for another six months to a year, and the x700 doesn't. Both will be able to play games for awhile, but I'd say the 6600GT will last you a bit longer.

that x800 for $180... that's mighty tempting. i have bought refurbs from newegg before, with no problems. I have in fact bought new stuff that's been DOA and never had a prob with a refurb so I am usually willing to take the risk, if it's for a significant savings. Their RMA policy is second to none.

Hmmm, sounds like I shoud take the plunge and try a refurbished board. So now choices are up(forget the 130 budget, if I can get a killer card for around $200~ I'm going for it!!!!).

Now question is 6800 or x800? Keep in mind heat/power consumption is very important, over here we get 100+F temperatures constantly. No need to get the airconditioning bill any higher, or the room warmer. Also the case I like is said to've suboptimal ventilation(but it at least has 3 fans).


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814122207R(6800GT 256MB pciexpress)
This the board I think I'd like now, I've heard nvidia's cards are no longer supah hot/supah power consuming/leaf-blower fan abominations. But how good's the heat/power consumption right now? How does it compare to the x800 in that department and in performance(from what I understand it beats it... I'll be looking at the reviews again just in case)? Is the performance difference worth the $50~ difference with the x800 worth it?

As I've just said, heat/power is important I don't want my rig having a meltdown if any fan should happen to go dead. Nor do I want a heater in my room. From what I understand the cpu runs cool, and even with a broken fan(according to one/some reviews) it can still keep going. I want something similar or at least some form of clock-throttle/safety-off/etc to keep it from overheating should something go wrong.

Here's the case I currently like the most and a few others:


I think this is the case that I'm going to buy
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811170020

These cases ain't too bad either:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811208001
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811156164
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811145017
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811133154
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811166005
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811133154

 

[digitalwanderer]

Doesn't Newegg.com have a 30 day return policy on their refurbed stuff? That's generally more than enough time to make sure there aren't any show-stopping problems with the hardware.

 

[zidane1strife]

Just read some reviews, and it seems x800 and 6800 genereate 73C while operational. One of the two is said to raise case temperature by 10C , the other's said to burn to the touch . That's simply unacceptable. Not to mention high power consumption.


From wHat I understand stuff like the 6600gt runs substantially cooler 10s of degrees cooler, and consumes far less power. I'm going to pack 320GB right now, and I'll be upgrading later to 1-2TB. That data must be absolutely safe.

edited

 

[zidane1strife]

It seems that the 6600gt comes with a temperature sensor, disabled by some vendors. It seems if this works as I think it does and is available in the 6800gt it may solve my problems.

Does anyone know how it works? I mean can I set it to 40-50C max temperature and it'll downclock the gpu?

 

[zidane1strife]

Now that the next-gen gforce has been announced how long will it be till next-gen mid-range products are launched? Is it better to wait for them?(I don't want to buy a 6600gt if there's going to be a better option soon.)

 

[poopypoo]

Now that the next-gen gforce has been announced how long will it be till next-gen mid-range products are launched? Is it better to wait for them?(I don't want to buy a 6600gt if there's going to be a better option soon.)

if only we ALL KNEW the answer to this question ;p

i suspect it will be quite some time. it simply doesn't benefit nV much to release a 6600gt competitor right now (not to mention, if faster than the 6600gt, a midrange 7xxx part would hurt 6800gt sales). next month ati releases its highend part, so maybe the month after there will be more motivation? price wars should definitely be upcoming though. shortly the launch of a new gen is always an exciting time to shop for old graphics cards (i recommend ebay! but be careful)... :9~

honestly, at ~$150, i don't think any competitor is going to magically appear in the next three or more months to challenge the 6600gt. however, prices across the board are bound to go down if you wait; this is the one universal constant in PCs well except for RAM ;_;