Blu-ray and HD-DVD talks restart again

[London Geezer]

This is like a soap opera. Are they gonna announce that "the talks have started again" and that "they couldn't reach an agreement so we're back from square one" every 2 weeks or so?

Just announce something when this is all over!! Either in or out. This is just a big tease and very distressing for us.

 

[Sean*O]

Kutaragi has said that even if there is a unified format later, it won't affect PS3's launch. He won't delay for the format.

More likely than that, is once the PS3 production begins (if it does go to production with Blu-Ray drives) there won't be any more unification talks because Sony will have played it's biggest hand in the format war.

So is Sony's trying to stall the launch of HD-DVD by keeping open lines on a unified format?

 

[London Geezer]

As long as i get my HD version of Buffy i'll be happy.

Or, better, the whole thing at the same res in 7 discs instead of 42. (it's 6 DVD per season now, it would be 1 BlueRay/whatever disc per season at the same res).

 

[Sean*O]

LOL!

That is going to be one expensive 7 disc set.

 

[London Geezer]

LOL!

That is going to be one expensive 7 disc set.

Well i paid £80 (=$150) for each season, so it won't be much of a shock for me.

Fucking hell i spent £400 (=$750) for Buffy!! (i only have 5 sets out of 7)

 

[jvd]

As long as i get my HD version of Buffy i'll be happy.

Or, better, the whole thing at the same res in 7 discs instead of 42. (it's 6 DVD per season now, it would be 1 BlueRay/whatever disc per season at the same res).

multi discs don't bother me . Smallville is 6 dvds and its 3 per disc (last disc is 1) so changing a disc every 3 hours isn't a big deal. On hd-dvd u should be able to fit 4 hd quality ones per disc on a dual layer or if its a tri layer u should be able to fit 6 or so

 

[London Geezer]

As long as i get my HD version of Buffy i'll be happy.

Or, better, the whole thing at the same res in 7 discs instead of 42. (it's 6 DVD per season now, it would be 1 BlueRay/whatever disc per season at the same res).

multi discs don't bother me . Smallville is 6 dvds and its 3 per disc (last disc is 1) so changing a disc every 3 hours isn't a big deal. On hd-dvd u should be able to fit 4 hd quality ones per disc on a dual layer or if its a tri layer u should be able to fit 6 or so

Yep. Wouldn't mind some HD Buffy. The first 3 seasons boxsets especially are rather dull IQ-wise...

 

[jvd]

the eldest sister loves that crap. Personaly i never cared for it , xander got a bum rap and I stoped watching haha .

 

[London Geezer]

A one-disc HD version of each LOTR movies would be nice too. Or a SD version, with all the movies on one disc. I'm pretty sure what most people would get here.

So many options

 

[Shifty Geezer]

GI.biz says otherwise...

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=9617

Sony and Toshiba fail to reach agreement on unified next-gen disc format

Just weeks after announcing there was "little chance" of reaching an agreement on the issue of a unified next-gen disc format, SCE president Ken Kutaragi has confirmed that negotiations are at an end.

Speaking to Nikkei Electronics, Kutaragi said that it was "game over" for talks between Sony, which supports the Blu-Ray format, and HD-DVD supporter Toshiba.

Negotiations began back in February, but the two companies failed to reach an agreement on storage capacities. Blu-Ray discs can hold 50GB of data while HD-DVD discs only hold 30GB, but the HD-DVD camp argues that lower manufacturing costs make for a cheaper, more consumer-friendly product.

Earlier this month Kutaragi said the negotiations were troubled after Toshiba refused to accept Blu-Ray as the basis for a unified format. It now seems inevitable that both formats will hit the market when the next generation of DVD players rolls out at the end of the year, despite Sony's efforts to avoid another format war of the VHS vs. Betamax kind.

EDIT : This news is obviously late compared to the thread starter's. KK says it's all over, but a reshuffling of the negotiation team might break open new negotations.

 

[Carl B]

Kutaragi has said that even if there is a unified format later, it won't affect PS3's launch. He won't delay for the format. So if any such format is to be included in PS3, I'd say it'd have to be very similar to Bluray (software changes only perhaps), unless perhaps they turn around an agreement in a matter of weeks.

I think Kutaragi saying those things may have been the equivelent of brinksmanship though, as certainly Toshiba and the gang must be interested in getting that free ride inside of the PS3.

 

[mckmas8808]

Yeah Shifty that news is before the new news that I posted. And I would like to answer the following comment.

Personally, I would like to have the extra Blu-Ray storage, but if I were selling a product (like HD movies & games) and I could save a few million dollars a year by releasing my product on HD-DVD with the same quality (with the exception of maybe having to use 1500Kbps DTS audio as opposed to lossless audio,) I am keeping the money.

Well first we don't have to worry about HD-DVD games because nobody is supporting that. And for the movies if you were selling a product you would like to put it on a media that can be viewed by as many of people as possible. So after one year if the PS3 and other Blu-ray players sell 15 million units, but HD-DVD players only sell 4 million then does that savings justify the means?

So is Sony's trying to stall the launch of HD-DVD by keeping open lines on a unified format?

I think this is the question of the year. I think this could be a possiblility.

 

[jvd]

Kutaragi has said that even if there is a unified format later, it won't affect PS3's launch. He won't delay for the format. So if any such format is to be included in PS3, I'd say it'd have to be very similar to Bluray (software changes only perhaps), unless perhaps they turn around an agreement in a matter of weeks.

I think Kutaragi saying those things may have been the equivelent of brinksmanship though, as certainly Toshiba and the gang must be interested in getting that free ride inside of the PS3.

you put to much importance on the ps3 .

The sales of dvd players for set top players , computer players , car players , video game consoles is much much much bigger than the amount of ps2s sold and the amount of hd players sold in those segments will be bigger than the ps3 installed base .


Both sony and toshiba want in on the next standard . If they both go up against each other they will both loose alot of money. There will be ap rice war , there will be costly deals to secure content for said format , there will be the costs of advertising , buying store space and what not .

Having to bleed all that money and fight another company that may beat u is the last thing that either of them want . If they can merge not only will they save themselves a bloody war. They will be able to keep the key part to the money intake intact and that is the price of software. They can now keep the premium which is sure to make them and the other movie studios tons of moeny

 

[NavNucST3]

So is Sony's trying to stall the launch of HD-DVD by keeping open lines on a unified format?

I think this is the question of the year. I think this could be a possiblility.[/quote]

Or, it could be the other way around as HD-DVD uses primarily the same manufacturing process as current DVDs. So a delay to the HD-DVD camp wouldn't be as dramatic as that of the BD-ROM camp. Also, it would be better for them (HD-DVD) strategically to stall or slow the talks as they have fewer companies in their consortium.

 

[NavNucST3]

Kutaragi has said that even if there is a unified format later, it won't affect PS3's launch. He won't delay for the format. So if any such format is to be included in PS3, I'd say it'd have to be very similar to Bluray (software changes only perhaps), unless perhaps they turn around an agreement in a matter of weeks.

you put to much importance on the ps3 .

The sales of dvd players for set top players , computer players , car players , video game consoles is much much much bigger than the amount of ps2s sold and the amount of hd players sold in those segments will be bigger than the ps3 installed base ...

jvd,

While you are correct that the user base of DVD far exceeds that of PS2 sales, you have to take into account that it was a major push for the "new" format at the time. Sells may have exceeded the PS2 now, but I firmly believe that the PS2 ushered dvd players into households (parents buying some game machine for their kids) that now have 2 or 3 or in my house 5 not including computers. This coming from someone who really does not like Sony as a company (but still liking some of their professional products), I give them full credit for taking DVD where it is today.

I also believe that BD-ROM is techincally superior to HD-DVD, but from a consumers point of view, I think the cost of HD-DVD should be much less than that of BD-ROM, giving them the better chance to get into a deal with the devil, aka Wal-Mart. Wal-Mart is the bread and butter for the movie studios...sadly.

 

[jvd]

While you are correct that the user base of DVD far exceeds that of PS2 sales, you have to take into account that it was a major push for the "new" format at the time. Sells may have exceeded the PS2 now, but I firmly believe that the PS2 ushered dvd players into households (parents buying some game machine for their kids) that now have 2 or 3 or in my house 5 not including computers. This coming from someone who really does not like Sony as a company (but still liking some of their professional products), I give them full credit for taking DVD where it is today.

Belive what you will. Dvds were already moving rapidly and already made a name for themselves before they were put in the ps2. The content was there by the truck load and getting bigger by the day .


With bluray the ps3 seems like its going to launch right around the time that bluray movies will be coming out . Which means its a baby format with a baby system to push . This time it will be even harder to gain footing as there is another format on the way and dvd is a domniate thing and many people will not see a diffrence between bluray , hd-dvd and dvds on thier tv as they are still on standard res tvs

I also believe that BD-ROM is techincally superior to HD-DVD, but from a consumers point of view, I think the cost of HD-DVD should be much less than that of BD-ROM, giving them the better chance to get into a deal with the devil, aka Wal-Mart. Wal-Mart is the bread and butter for the movie studios...sadly.

Mabye it is , but that didn't stop beta from loosing , laser disc for loosing or many other things that were beaten out buy infior tech .


Its a media player so really price and media is whats going to decide the victor . If hd-dvd is able to get the price and the content the early adopters want they will win the battle . Nothing is cut and dry .

 

[eDoshin]

Kutaragi has said that even if there is a unified format later, it won't affect PS3's launch. He won't delay for the format. So if any such format is to be included in PS3, I'd say it'd have to be very similar to Bluray (software changes only perhaps), unless perhaps they turn around an agreement in a matter of weeks.

I think Kutaragi saying those things may have been the equivelent of brinksmanship though, as certainly Toshiba and the gang must be interested in getting that free ride inside of the PS3.

you put to much importance on the ps3 .

The sales of dvd players for set top players , computer players , car players , video game consoles is much much much bigger than the amount of ps2s sold and the amount of hd players sold in those segments will be bigger than the ps3 installed base .


Both sony and toshiba want in on the next standard . If they both go up against each other they will both loose alot of money. There will be ap rice war , there will be costly deals to secure content for said format , there will be the costs of advertising , buying store space and what not .

Having to bleed all that money and fight another company that may beat u is the last thing that either of them want . If they can merge not only will they save themselves a bloody war. They will be able to keep the key part to the money intake intact and that is the price of software. They can now keep the premium which is sure to make them and the other movie studios tons of moeny

BluRay gets a free ride into the living room, while the standalones have to convince one consumer at a time to choose a format that may ultimately lose the format war.

 

[Carl B]

NucNavST - your quoting has issues, as in the above post you have me saying exactly what jvd said.

@eDoshin: my feelings exactly. It's a lot easier for a consumer to make a comitment to a $20 disc after realizing they already have a player than it is for a consumer to put down several hundred for a standalone player to play $20 discs from one format or another.

 

[mckmas8808]

Hey jvd here's a little history on how DVD players looked over the years. As you can see its rough trying to start a new media for people to watch movies on. The PS3 sells will probably equal if not surpass these numbers alone based on history. Think about it.

1997

349,000 DVD-Video players shipped in the U.S. (About 200,000 sold into homes.)
900 DVD-Video titles available in the U.S. Over 5 million copies shipped; about 2 million sold.
Over 500,000 DVD-Video players shipped worldwide.
Around 330,000 DVD-ROM drives shipped worldwide with about 1 million bundled DVD-ROM titles.
60 DVD-ROM titles (mostly bundled).

1998

1,089,000 DVD-Video players shipped in the U.S. (Installed base of 1,438,000.)400 DVD-Video titles in Europe (135 movie and music titles).
3,000 DVD-Video titles in the U.S. (2000 movie and music titles).
7.2 million DVD-Video discs purchased.

1999

4,019,000 DVD-Video players shipped in the U.S. (Installed base of 5,457,000.)
Over 6,300 DVD-Video titles in the U.S.
About 26 million DVD-ROM drives worldwide.
About 75 DVD-ROM titles available in the U.S.

2000

8.5 million DVD-Video players shipped in the U.S. (Installed base of 13,922,000.)
About 46 million DVD-ROM drives worldwide.
Over 10,000 DVD-Video titles available in the U.S.
Belgium: 100 thousand installed base
France: 1.2 million installed base
Germany: 1.2 million installed base
Italy: 360 thousand installed base
Netherlands: 200 thousand installed base
Spain: 300 thousand installed base
Sweden: 120 thousand installed base
Switzerland: 250 thousand installed base
UK: 1 million installed base

2001

12.7 million DVD-Video players shipped in the U.S. (Installed base of 26,629,000.)
Over 45 million DVD-ROM drives in the U.S.
Over 90 million DVD-ROM drives worldwide.
UK: 3 million installed base

2002

17 million DVD-Video players shipped in the U.S. (Installed base of 43,718,000.)
Over 75 million DVD-ROM drives in the U.S.
Over 140 million DVD-ROM drives worldwide.

2003 (fall)

16 million DVD-Video players shipped in the U.S. (Installed base of 73,300,000.)
Over 27,000 DVD-Video titles available in the U.S.

Link Click part 1.9 http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cach...dfaq.html+how+many+DVD+players+sold&hl=en

 

[Carl B]

mckmas8808 if we're looking to see PS2's potential effect, you should be highlighting DVD-Video players shipped, not DVD-ROM drives.