Blizzard confirms "Titan" MMO

[Laa-Yosh]

Which is why it's even more rewarding to be the first studio to get it right. People are willing to pay, you just have to get it right. Doesn't have to be a fully micro based payment system, or they can go with a hybrid solution... Just think about stuff like gold farmers, what if Blizzard allowed you to buy those things from them instead of those poor souls in Asia? There must be a lot of people who would play a bit of WoW if it would not involve months of building up a character.

And if it's a question of good game design, then who else to make it work other than Blizzard.

 

[aaronspink]

Eventually perhaps - but when exactly? The WoW playerbase has been growing for 6 years now and keeps doing so.

It hasn't really been growing for years, more like holding steady/shifting base from high value to low value. If you look at the subscriber breakdowns, a lot of the growth has been in the cheaper markets with a general decline within the high value markets (aka Asia/China is growing but US/EU is declining). Also subscriptions have very much been sinusoidal with people subscribing for new content and then desubbing once they've completed the content. They've also been extremely lucky in that few real competitors have appeared mostly through gross mismanagement/mis-design. Add to that, people are starting to tire from the treadmill of the same old same old.

 

[aaronspink]

Which is why it's even more rewarding to be the first studio to get it right. People are willing to pay, you just have to get it right. Doesn't have to be a fully micro based payment system, or they can go with a hybrid solution... Just think about stuff like gold farmers, what if Blizzard allowed you to buy those things from them instead of those poor souls in Asia? There must be a lot of people who would play a bit of WoW if it would not involve months of building up a character.

Months? You can already pretty much go from lvl 1 to maxed out in a month or two. If anything, it is already too fast. Also it is very hard to do micros and subscription and if you can do subscription you will make more money.

And if it's a question of good game design, then who else to make it work other than Blizzard.

The micro fad has already mostly been played out in MMOs. People quickly realize that you are generally better off paying a subscription fee than paying even more in a rigged game that effectively requires the micro-transactions.

 

[AlphaWolf]

I don't know how you make micro work in a game where you want meaningful progression to be the carrot.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

I can only repeat myself, yes it is a complicated issue, but the first one to get it work could make a lot of money.

Also, I'm not entirely sure that what you consider 1 month and what I consider are the same there's a lot of people who can only spend 1 or 2 days with gaming per week and that timetable just can't work with something like WoW.
I could see a lot of such people saying that their spare time worths more then $10 so they'll just pay for a higher level character to get to see the more interesting content.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Both F2P and P2P aren't going anywhere. There's MMO companies already on 3rd and 4th generation F2P MMO's. And not because their first ones have stopped being used. PWI for example has multiple generations of F2P MMO's getting regular updates which they are presumably making a profit on (otherwise, why update or even keep them running?). And some of those MMO's rival the scale of your traditional P2P MMO's.

Likewise, P2P MMOs aren't going anywhere, because they still offer best value for money if you play a lot. And from a company perspective, it makes it a lot easier to forecast month to month income once the game is established.

And as Laa-Yosh mentioned, if you don't play a lot, some form of F2P with occasional purchases might make a lot more sense.

Regards,
SB

 

[Malo]

Front what I've heard LOTR is doing fairly well going with a combined model.

 

[Grall]

Half-rumor: Blizzard resets "Titan"; delayed until '16 at the earliest.

The company is alledgedly unhappy with the direction the project has taken and attempts to remedy; the 30-strong core of the devteam will re-think the game while the remaining 70 of the alledged 100-strong team is broken up and moved to other in-house projects like WoW, Diablo3 expansion and so on.

I'm not terribly surprised really. Few blizzard projects seem to have run from beginning to end without major fits and starts, not that that's necessarily a bad thing though. Just saying, it's not surprising. Since we don't even know anything about the game other than that it's been described as a MMO (although not sure if blizz themselves have actually confirmed that officially or not), it's not as if it's a loss anyway. It may as well come out when it's good and damned ready.

 

[MfA]

My guess, they were making a WoW clone (ie. themepark with linedancing MMO raid progression with expansion resets) and realized it would be just as successful as everyone else's.

 

[ArcticCircle]

Too bad. I quit WoW in about middle of Lich King expansion and they are in same spot with their new MMO as they were back then. I'm suprised if they get anything done before 2020. If they say 2016, you add +2 years in best case scenario and then at least 1 year for beta. Let's say holidays 2019.

 

[aaronspink]

Probably walked into the design review, went over the game, went over the financials, and then somebody asked the question:

"Why is this going to do any better than the numerous MMOs that have come out over the past 5 years that have spent massive amounts of money on development, with top flight talent, and have not only not been blockbusters but struggled to merely stay alive"

AKA someone asked the real question. WoW is a fluke, a lucky happenstance. Right time, right place, and as lucky as can be.

 

[Grall]

Only answer possible to that question is, "because we're blizzard, we're too big to fail", and when any company is hit by harsh reality after taking such an arrogant stance the result is usually a rude awakening. Perhaps they realized this themselves? *shrug*

Truth is though that we don't know what exactly it is that made them re-evaluate their game. Speculation has already existed for a long time that titan is not going to be subscriber-only, but even so I think most people agree that the MMO market is relatively fixed in size, and has grown about as big as it is ever gonna get - at least as long as you can't somehow expand into mobile gaming and stuff like that. So maybe that is what they're doing. *shrug* Who the hell knows!

In any case, titan's gonna cannibalize wow majorly if it hits big, it's unlikely to attract very many new customers.

Perhaps Blizz will make titan free and fully enabled to play for all wow subbers? Hard to imagine them not doing it - one thing's sure, people into MMOs in general and blizzard MMOs in particular aren't going to pay for two simultaneous subs when they can only play one game at a time.

 

[pcchen]

but even so I think most people agree that the MMO market is relatively fixed in size, and has grown about as big as it is ever gonna get - at least as long as you can't somehow expand into mobile gaming and stuff like that.

MMO-RPG maybe, but MMO in general, I'm not so sure. There are still many possible styles of MMO games not properly explored yet.

 

[Wynix]

MMO-RPG maybe, but MMO in general, I'm not so sure. There are still many possible styles of MMO games not properly explored yet.

They have proven that millions of people will buy their non MMO games in droves and they should stick to it IMO.
Diablo 4 in 2015 for PS4/Xbone/PC sounds like a better investment than a super expensive, personnel-bloated and risky MMO.

 

[I.S.T.]

If you really expect Diablo 4 before at least 2017, then I have quite a few pieces of swamp land in Arizona to sell you...

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Only answer possible to that question is, "because we're blizzard, we're too big to fail", and when any company is hit by harsh reality after taking such an arrogant stance the result is usually a rude awakening. Perhaps they realized this themselves? *shrug*

Truth is though that we don't know what exactly it is that made them re-evaluate their game. Speculation has already existed for a long time that titan is not going to be subscriber-only, but even so I think most people agree that the MMO market is relatively fixed in size, and has grown about as big as it is ever gonna get - at least as long as you can't somehow expand into mobile gaming and stuff like that. So maybe that is what they're doing. *shrug* Who the hell knows!

They've cancelled plenty of games in the past with little or no reason given to the public. So a reboot at this point isn't out of the ordinary. That they didn't cancel it as they have with other game projects means they still see a profitable future for it.

In any case, titan's gonna cannibalize wow majorly if it hits big, it's unlikely to attract very many new customers.

MMO's are still the fastest growing gaming segment out there. There are plenty of Asian MMOs that completely dwarf WoW's subscriber numbers. I don't see MMO's in general plateauing for quite a while yet.

Warcraft was never as big as Diablo. Imagine if they made a Diablo MMO? Or a StarCraft MMO? Or just came out with something new.

It's entirely possible that they could fail. But they still have a far better reputation for quality and dedication to support their games that other developers could only dream of having. They were still bugfixing and balancing Diablo 2 years and years after it launched, for example. What other developer can make that claim with their non-MMO and non-E-sport games? I'd imagine that reputation alone will get them not only their current users but potentially new ones as well. And not just that but bring back people that haven't played WoW in over 5 years. For all the millions playing WoW currently, there's likely just as many millions that have quit and don't play WoW anymore.

Regards,
SB

 

[Grall]

MMO's are still the fastest growing gaming segment out there.

Um, I should have qualified my statement with "subscription-based" in conjunction with MMO; all of the big (as in multiple-WoW big) MMOs seem to be driven by micropayments of some sort or another. That is not a model that appeals to me personally, I'd feel like I was constantly being nickled and dimed. Also, the temptation to pay to win would be overpowering for many people if such an option existed... I'm sure you've read horror stories about some kid charging hundreds, if not thousands of dollars' worth of Smurf strawberries or some shit like that to Mommy's credit card, for example.

Warcraft was never as big as Diablo. Imagine if they made a Diablo MMO? Or a StarCraft MMO?

I was never a very big warcraft fan, I never played any of the single-player campaigns before I started playing WoW, Diablo would have been a much more interesting world for a MMO for me, as I'd spent around four years in Sanctuary by the time WoW launched. Warcraft does have the edge in that there exists orcs, elves, trolls and so on, while the Diablo universe is just a man's world (don't think demons and angels would be very good playable races... )

...Then again, blizz has officially stated that titan is supposed to be a brand new universe, not based on any of their previous works - or so I seem to recall anyway. It's a possibility I'm mistaken of course.

They were still bugfixing and balancing Diablo 2 years and years after it launched, for example.

The latest patch for D2 came over around 11 years after the game launched, IIRC! Pretty damn unmatched, really...

Starcraft is has also received the odd patch long long long after first release, I don't really keep track of that game but it wouldn't surprise me if Blizz has fixed odd bits and pieces of that game fairly recently, seeing how popular it still is in some markets...
*cough*korea*ahem*

 

[Sxotty]

Um, I should have qualified my statement with "subscription-based" in conjunction with MMO; all of the big (as in multiple-WoW big) MMOs seem to be driven by micropayments of some sort or another. That is not a model that appeals to me personally, I'd feel like I was constantly being nickled and dimed. Also, the temptation to pay to win would be overpowering for many people if such an option existed... I'm sure you've read horror stories about some kid charging hundreds, if not thousands of dollars' worth of Smurf strawberries or some shit like that to Mommy's credit card, for example.)

There was a a video talking about this I saw somewhere recently. It was discussing how some MMOs with a fee structure do a much better job giving the gamer value for their money. One in particular was designed so you bought zones to play in and once you paid the fee one time you always had access to that zone. I would not find that too detestable. I don't play MMOs myself nor do I like a payment plan a la WoW, or nickle and diming (as you can see from my sig ) In any case I think the free to pay model is here to stay.

http://www.ign.com/videos/2013/05/09/game-scoop-why-wow-will-go-free-to-play there is the video I mentioned

 

[Grall]

It was discussing how some MMOs with a fee structure do a much better job giving the gamer value for their money.

I don't really agree. Well, I do I suppose, if the pay-to-play model is well implemented, but like I said, the psychology would work on me to create a feeling of being nickled and dimed even though I would probably spend LESS money than I do on WoW (and I actually have two accounts running. Bluagh!) I prefer to pay a fixed fee and get access to everything, always, rather than pay-per-zone, pay to be able to ride mounts, pay for bigger bags, pay to enter dungeons, pay to learn professions, pay to do this, pay to do that.......even if it's tiny sums. It would feel annoying to me.

In any case I think the free to pay model is here to stay.

Oh yes, undoubtedly. It seems to have catched on big-time with many folks, as much as it aggravates me! Well, not really... I just don't play any such games - although I have entertained notions of trying out WAR, LoTRO etc. Just never had the time for it - WoW is like a full-time job in some respects these days unfortunately.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

or nickle and diming (as you can see from my sig )

Interesting that you mention that. It appears that formerly single payment single player games are starting to go this method. Just learned that the next Plants vs. Zombies (loved the first one) will be going F2P with micro-transactions.

Apparently the reasoning for it is that micro-transactions (nickel and diming) is the predominant way to make money on iPhone (where PvZ 2 will first appear) and Android games due to the fact that it's hard to get anyone to pay more than 1 to 2 USD for game. So instead they all have micro-transactions to try to make money.

Which I think means that is likely going to become more and more prevalent as people on smartphones/tablets get used to it and then they won't think a thing about it when it starts to dominate PC gaming.

Regards,
SB