Beyond3D's review of the VisionTek XTASY GeForce4 MX440

hmmmm

a budget card with enough fillrate (ie 128bit DDR, or TBR like tech) with good opengl drivers. left only a few card out there.....

and i think a lot people with powerful CPUs are looking at budget card. And a lot builders are pairing the low end gfx cards with highend cpus... (like those tnt2 m64 on NW or XPs)

 

No. Because much more cards on the market now support DOT3 and cube env map. The market is much larger.

So, if a game developer is designing for EMBM, he or she may want to "upgrade" to DX8 PS 1.1, with a little loss of Radeon users. On the other hand, a game supporting DOT3 and cube env map is going to be supported by more than half video cards on the market.

 

... market share of features hasn't stopped 50+ developers to implement EMBM although it was only supported by the G400 for a long time.

In the meantime, KYRO I/II, Radeon, Radeon 7500, Radeon 8500, GeForce3 and Geforce4 are supporting EMBM too.

 

That's simply not true, unless you use a cheap 17" CRT.

 

Hmm
About EMBM: I don't think I have a single game that supports it. 50% somone said? wow, I must have some strange games
If there is one feature I can live without, it's EMBM.

 

MoA supports EMBM? I got to check that game out sometime.

 

Darn Rev, you should've brought that up yesterday. I spent 4 hours squinting at the monitor in hopes of finding that elusive EMBM in MoHAA.

 

Having not seen a lot of EMBM and DOT3 scenes to compare, I'll just say that I always thought the giant turd in 3dMark wasn't nearly as cool as the EMBM tests.

But... it was a beautiful turd.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Bigus Dickus on 2002-02-26 07:31 ]</font>

 

Interesting comparitive data from the Ti500, Reverend. It does indeed give a better perspective on the performance of the MX440. Interesting incongruency for "hardware T&amp;L" considering 3DMark2001 polygon scores. Perhaps such comparitive data will make it into the reviews in the future? The questions a reader wishes to ask may be others than the reviewer think to answer. Comparitive data helps. A lot.

Entropy

 

Uhm, dot3 and EMBM aren't exactly competing technologies. They are completementary. They are good for different types of effects. You can't use EMBM for lighting, you'll need dot3. You can't use dot3 for refraction or reflections, you'll need EMBM.
With pixel shaders you can combine both effects in the same shader.

 

But is EMBM widely used? Someone claimed it was in half of the games today, but I have none of them apparently.
Any new games today that supports it?

Unfortunately I have not seen it more, because I like it a lot. Makes great water-effects. But PS can do the same so I guess it's on it's way out.

 

No, I claimed that there are more than 50 games supporting it, not 50%. That's a difference. There is a list of some games over at matrox.com, though it isn't up to date.

You can argue whatever you want, EMBM is widly used, is better for certain effects than Dot3 and is supported on any card except Geforce2/4MX.

 

Galilee,

I think the poster in question didn't say 50%, but that about 50 devs support(ed) EMBM:

For a pretty comprehensive list of EMBM-enabled games, check here:

http://www.matrox.com/mga/3d_gaming/enhanced.cfm

ta,
.rb

_________________
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<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: nggalai on 2002-02-26 13:13 ]</font>
________
buy vaporgenie

 

I thought Rev's choice in games for benchmarks were great, Q3 is three years OLD..who cares about Quake 3. A newer racing sim, a newer 1st person shooter like SS2 (MOHAA would be another good one), much better than look 242 fps on Quake 3 vs 188 :rollseyes:

 

You're probably right in suggesting that most gamers aren't going to pair a XP 2000+ with a MX440. However, I think many gamers will pair a MX440 with a XP1700+. The XP2000+ is so much more expensive that it isn't a good budget option. The XP1700+ is (it's arguably the best price/performance currently). A lot of people getting a new system on a budget will likely end up with the XP1700+ and a MX440 or something similar. Especially those not in the US. The GeForce3 Ti200 may be available for about the same price as a MX440 in the US at some stored in the US but not in a lot of the rest of the world. Maybe it will change in the future, maybe not (but the Ti200 is dissapearing anyway and the Ti4200 is NOT going to be anywhere near the MX440 price). And the difference in price altho maybe only the price of a movie or two with the wife (according to the spam I receive anyway) can be quite a lot in other countries. Def enough to make one choose the MX440 over the Ti200 even if the Ti200 can be a lot better. Rev, living in Malaysia, you should realise that the RM200 (I'm not sure how accurate this is since I didn't pay much attention to it when I was still there) price diff between the MX440 and Ti200 can be a very big sum for many including gamers.

Also, you're all ignoring the fact that there are a lot of gamers who are "softcore" i.e. only play a few games every year. These are undoutedly a very significant portion of the gamers market. Many of them get the computer not just for games but for other things as well. Investing in a better processor makes a lot more sense then investing in a better card for them. Of coz, they still want fairly acceptable performance from their cards.
I'm sure that there will be a lot of people with slow processors (e.g. 1000ghz) who end up getting a Ti200 or something becoz a processor upgrade will cost too much and their TNT or onboard card just doesn't cut it anymore. There will also be a lot of XP1700+ers who get a MX440 coz the Ti200 is just too expensive (esp given they are getting a whole new comp). Especially take into account students etc on a fairly tight budget.

 

haha, this list is not the best commercial for EMBM How old is this list? hehehe. I have heard of some of the games.
Point being, EMBM is "mostly" useless these days, unless you play 3dmark or really old games.

Ace of Angelsâ„¢
Aquariusâ„¢
Battlezone II: Combat Commanderâ„¢
Battle Isle: The Andosia war
BITM
Carmageddon®: TDR 2000™
Colin McRae Rally 2
Descent 3â„¢
Descent 3â„¢: Mercenary
Destroyer Commandâ„¢
Drakanâ„¢
Dungeon Keeperâ„¢ 2
Echelon®
Echelon®: Wind Warriors
Expendableâ„¢
F1 World Grand Prix
Far Gate
Fur Fighters
Hard Truck IIâ„¢
Hired Teamâ„¢ Gold
Hired Teamâ„¢: Trial
Incoming Forces
Parkan: Iron Strategyâ„¢
Ka-52 Team Alligatorâ„¢
Kyodai
Off Road: Redneck Racing
Offshore2000: Pro Surf Tour
Planet Heat
PowerRenderâ„¢ engine V 3.0*
Private Warsâ„¢
Rollcage® Stage II
Silent Hunter II
Silent Space
Silex engine
Slave Zeroâ„¢
Speed Bustersâ„¢
Spirit of Speed 1937
Sub Command
Jugular® Street Luge Racing
Totaledâ„¢
Warm Up
Wild Metal Countryâ„¢*


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Galilee on 2002-02-26 14:27 ]</font>

 

I respectfully disagree with Reverend and others on EMBM. However, I am not saying it is a must-have feature, etc.

But to dismiss the titles that have this feature and imply that Dot3 and per-pixel lighting would blow it away, well, that isn't the point.

I am a gamer and I want to play Echelon.... how is Dot3 and per-pixel going to help that game? It doesn't; EMBM does.

For a product that suppose to be about EXISTING games more than FUTURE games and to dismiss a feature that enhances 40 or more EXISTING titles and offer, well, in the future EMBM will not be a big deal and Dot3 and per-pixel is more important. Some feel shaders are more important but this doesn't dismiss Dot3 does it?

Another point is Multi-sampling:

No where did I read about texture aliasing and since this product's x2 AA doesn't touch textures... I think it is important.

The product would need some sort of anisotrophy to help curb texture aliasing and this part was ignored for the reader.