NAVI 5700X 180W 7nm
RTX2070 175W 12nm
XB 1X GPU 120W 16nm (estimated)
We can find that current Navi (without any RT) has poor power efficiency even with the best 7nm process available.
Since the new-gens are coming only during holidays 2020 (or at least Scarlett is) then their final SoCs might be made on Samsung's 5LPE and/or TSMC's 7FF+. EUV should provide better yields, so they can probably make larger chips at lower clocks to reach higher performance at lower power consumption.New So since we know the Navi 5700 xt is 225W TDP with 9.75 Navi TF, is the dream of 12 Navi TF console over? Are we now realistically looking at a 9 TF console in the best case scenario?
So since we know the Navi 5700 xt is 225W TDP with 9.75 Navi TF, is the dream of 12 Navi TF console over? Are we now realistically looking at a 9 TF console in the best case scenario?
Do they even have time for that? I thought things would have be locked way before the actual manufacturing starts, changing to a larger chips requires more testing and etc, sorry I could be just clueless on this, how possible do you think this would eventuate?Since the new-gens are coming only during holidays 2020 (or at least Scarlett is) then their final SoCs might be made on Samsung's 5LPE and/or TSMC's 7FF+. EUV should provide better yields, so they can probably make larger chips at lower clocks to reach higher performance at lower power consumption.
Thank for the explanation, so there are revisions to consider, I just hope they have enough time to hit it before everything is locked down.Not exactly, we know that in 2019 on 7nm a Navi based product from AMD has a 225 TDP for 9.75 TF.
Things we don't know are there design issues or bugs that are preventing it from achieving a better efficiency that will be addressed in the next revision? Even if the consoles don't pick the next RDNA revision, I expect them to fix power issues.
Is the 7nm process itself getting refined further for a better efficiency? Or can the consoles ship with 7nm+/EUV? Will the cost of 7nm drop to allow more CUs at a lower clock? Power consumption scales quadratically with voltage and linearly with frequency so running a bigger chip at a lower voltage and frequency can have a huge impact on power consumption.
Are we getting just a 9 TF console or is it ~9TF console with additional ray-tracing hardware?
I think there are just so many unknowns at this point, but today my expectation is that both consoles will perform around a ~1080ti/2080 level (something I didn't really expect a year or two ago).
So since we know the Navi 5700 xt is 225W TDP with 9.75 Navi TF, is the dream of 12 Navi TF console over?
That dream never should have started. As many said earlier, 12TF was always too far.
Alarm clock to those still dreaming: They still need to add RayTracing Hardware and CPUs to the power consumption and heat dissipation concerns.
Well IIRC both Samsung 5nm and TSMC 7FF+ are scheduled to start mass production in the beginning of 2020, and tape-outs for the first chips coming that time should be about to come up in the next few months.Do they even have time for that? I thought things would have be locked way before the actual manufacturing starts, changing to a larger chips requires more testing and etc, sorry I could be just clueless on this, how possible do you think this would eventuate?
I like the sound of this, let's hope everything goes smooth.Well IIRC both Samsung 5nm and TSMC 7FF+ are scheduled to start mass production in the beginning of 2020, and tape-outs for the first chips coming that time should be about to come up in the next few months.
Those roadmaps have been known for quite a while (AFAIK at least mid-2016), and current devkits are probably using PC hardware (could be Radeon VII for all we know).
Well the only moment in the history of consoles where TF made sense was xb1 vs ps4 since it was such an identical architecture. And for the cpu it was so identical we used the good old MHZ.It did too for comparing CPU flops. People got over that one pretty quick.
That dream never should have started. As many said earlier, 12TF was always too far.
Wouldn't they be fighting for early volume against other markets?Well IIRC both Samsung 5nm and TSMC 7FF+ are scheduled to start mass production in the beginning of 2020, and tape-outs for the first chips coming that time should be about to come up in the next few months.
Hope you're willing to eat crow on this!
Dream to win the lottery, but plan to continue working.
on this forum, we do donation bets.Care for a ban bet?
JK. Is it even possible to ban yourself. Haha