Baseless Next Generation Rumors with no Technical Merits [post E3 2019, pre GDC 2020] [XBSX, PS5]

[RDGoodla]

PS5 is described as "the most exciting hardware in 20 years."

1. Super good RT performance?
2. SSD speed > 7GB/s for real loading?
3. HBM2E?
4. near 14TFs?

 

[anexanhume]

PS5 is described as "the most exciting hardware in 20 years."

1. Super good RT performance?
2. SSD speed > 7GB/s for real loading?
3. HBM2E?
4. near 14TFs?

Jason said it’s because of the CPU and SSD improvements.

 

[Esrever]

Jason said it’s because of the CPU and SSD improvements.

Sounds like he is just trying to hype it up if that is all there is. There has been way more interesting hardware in the last 20 years. Both features are pretty tame when you compare what happened during the ps2 to ps3 era.

 

[RDGoodla]

Jason said it’s because of the CPU and SSD improvements.

Many info indicated PS5 has faster SSD. But why does he talk about CPU?

Is it possible SONY customizes CPU (or integrates RT block into it) for RT?

 

[Nesh]

PS5 is described as "the most exciting hardware in 20 years."

1. Super good RT performance?
2. SSD speed > 7GB/s for real loading?
3. HBM2E?
4. near 14TFs?

who said that?

 

[AbsoluteBeginner]

Jason said it’s because of the CPU and SSD improvements.

After XSX I can see Sony with some special sauce for RT as well.

 

[BRiT]

who said that?

3. Absolutely no one.

 

[borntosoul]

Sure, they just random dumped a few bits here and there, but this is a deep dive and (personally I feel) giving a heads up is better.

After reading my posts Sony knew they had to say something .
It’s just lm the only one here who understood it. Boggles the mind.

 

[Globalisateur]

For tomorrow I am predicting from 11.6 tf to 13.3 tf (13.3 clocks !) with 52CUs.

But the emphasis of the presentation will be SSD speed and they are probably going to talk about their custom Ray Tracing, 3D Audio, smart game installing, haptic controller, adaptive triggers and BC.

All of that demoed using Knack 3.

 

[BRiT]

For tomorrow I am predicting from 11.6 tf to 13.3 tf (13.3 clocks !) with 52CUs.

And the price?

 

[anexanhume]

Sounds like he is just trying to hype it up if that is all there is. There has been way more interesting hardware in the last 20 years. Both features are pretty tame when you compare what happened during the ps2 to ps3 era.

He’s relaying a quote directly from a dev.

 

[Karmaprof]

Ha ha ha. Only you could look at this elegant machine and moan it's not enough. Your preferred $1000 machine is never going to happen. Go play on PC and be done with it, please!

This is not an Argument and follow the typical " if you dont like it , dont buy it" meme or schematics . It reminds me on Adam Orths Always Online PR speech, when a Guy ask what happend if the electricity goes out and he answer it with " dont buy a Vacuum Cleaner " . Such meme is using often to avoid or surpress a critical Discussion about Business Politics and the fact that a multi billion Dollar Company has no Vision to innovate Products , unable to bring the real Stuff to the market. So i called it Damage Control.

Sorry but there is no excuse for those technical limitations. 32 GB RAM or fast 16 GB via HBM do not make the console 500 dollars more expensive. With regard to the possebilities Microsoft has financially, Manpower etc., the end Result is rather sobering. But this is the Result when Calculators and Businesspeople has the Control over the Product Development /Design and not the Technicans and Engineers, the End-Result is so underwhelming. What have you done in the 7 years Microsoft?To end up with such a limited standard design of the Memory system? And the cache on the CPU is also smaller than in the desktop version, and the SSD isn't the fastest either. Why is it based on the limitations of current PCs? The console is a closed system in which you can put in specialized solutions, so why is the SSD in the Xbox not directly connected to the SOC / Apu via an interposer, but only via a PCle connection? They have wasted a lot of potential here. The RT Solution from Navi Rdna2 is not in the same League as Nvidias RTX Architecture. Features are missing, bad Performance and Quality. Look how bad the Minecraft Techdemo is. It runs slower compare to the RTX Version and all the Reflections are missing. Do we really believe that this is only an optimization Problem? The same Demo runs on a 2060 with 60 FPs at 1080p with all Reflections on and this is not a High End GPU and the Code it is not optimized only for this GPU. I have the feeling that RDNA2 is not designed for Raytraycing and ML at all. With Turing, nVidia is years ahead in both areas. And exactly both functions are the future Technologies that will have the greatest impact on the entire Industry. If the RDNA2 Architecture in the new Xbox is so much better than Nvidias RTX , Microsoft would have shown more than the bad Minecraft Demo with poorer Quality than the first Demonstration 7 Months ago. It is not enough to put slimmed-down PC components in a chip and then go public and tell people "look at this is our new console" that has nothing to do with Innovation.

So yes Platinum Boss was right:

https://www.videogameschronicle.com/news/platinum-boss-says-next-gen-consoles-more-of-the-same/

"Asked for his reaction to the platform holders’ plans, Inaba said: “It’s OK. And by that I mean, I’m sure that things will move faster, graphics will be better and maybe it will be easier with less wait times… that’s good for the consumer.


“But it’s more of the same, quite frankly, compared to previous generations. It’s nothing that’s disruptive or super innovative, if you ask me.”

He added: “Game hardware used to be about custom chips that you couldn’t do on PCs. Now you look at it and they’re just grabbing stuff that already exists."

I disagree with him in point of Cloudgaming and the Tegrachip in the Switch was ok.

 

[Globalisateur]

And the price?

No price tomorrow, that's not Cerny's job. That's Ryan's job.

My prediction about the price (I think this is what you were asking): from $449 to $499.

 

[Proelite]

PS5 is described as "the most exciting hardware in 20 years."

1. Super good RT performance?
2. SSD speed > 7GB/s for real loading?
3. HBM2E?
4. near 14TFs?

You forgot Zen 3 + RDNA 3.

 

[Scott_Arm]

For tomorrow I am predicting from 11.6 tf to 13.3 tf (13.3 clocks !) with 52CUs.

But the emphasis of the presentation will be SSD speed and they are probably going to talk about their custom Ray Tracing, 3D Audio, smart game installing, haptic controller, adaptive triggers and BC.

All of that demoed using Knack 3.

I fucking hope they demo Knack 3 just for the videogamedunkey content.

 

[Esrever]

He’s relaying a quote directly from a dev.

The fact that he is quoting it means he is trying to hype it. The dev is probably being paid to hype if he is working on next gen games.

 

[anexanhume]

The fact that he is quoting it means he is trying to hype it. The dev is probably being paid to hype if he is working on next gen games.

Yes, he is being paid to make successful games.

 

[Proelite]

This is not an Argument and follow the typical " if you dont like it , dont buy it" meme or schematics . It reminds me on Adam Orths Always Online PR speech, when a Guy ask what happend if the electricity goes out and he answer it with " dont buy a Vacuum Cleaner " . Such meme is using often to avoid or surpress a critical Discussion about Business Politics and the fact that a multi billion Dollar Company has no Vision to innovate Products , unable to bring the real Stuff to the market. So i called it Damage Control.

Sorry but there is no excuse for those technical limitations. 32 GB RAM or fast 16 GB via HBM do not make the console 500 dollars more expensive. With regard to the possebilities Microsoft has financially, Manpower etc., the end Result is rather sobering. But this is the Result when Calculators and Businesspeople has the Control over the Product Development /Design and not the Technicans and Engineers, the End-Result is so underwhelming. What have you done in the 7 years Microsoft?To end up with such a limited standard design of the Memory system? And the cache on the CPU is also smaller than in the desktop version, and the SSD isn't the fastest either. Why is it based on the limitations of current PCs? The console is a closed system in which you can put in specialized solutions, so why is the SSD in the Xbox not directly connected to the SOC / Apu via an interposer, but only via a PCle connection? They have wasted a lot of potential here. The RT Solution from Navi Rdna2 is not in the same League as Nvidias RTX Architecture. Features are missing, bad Performance and Quality. Look how bad the Minecraft Techdemo is. It runs slower compare to the RTX Version and all the Reflections are missing. Do we really believe that this is only an optimization Problem? The same Demo runs on a 2060 with 60 FPs at 1080p with all Reflections on and this is not a High End GPU and the Code it is not optimized only for this GPU. I have the feeling that RDNA2 is not designed for Raytraycing and ML at all. With Turing, nVidia is years ahead in both areas. And exactly both functions are the future Technologies that will have the greatest impact on the entire Industry. If the RDNA2 Architecture in the new Xbox is so much better than Nvidias RTX , Microsoft would have shown more than the bad Minecraft Demo with poorer Quality than the first Demonstration 7 Months ago. It is not enough to put slimmed-down PC components in a chip and then go public and tell people "look at this is our new console" that has nothing to do with Innovation.

So yes Platinum Boss was right:

https://www.videogameschronicle.com/news/platinum-boss-says-next-gen-consoles-more-of-the-same/

"Asked for his reaction to the platform holders’ plans, Inaba said: “It’s OK. And by that I mean, I’m sure that things will move faster, graphics will be better and maybe it will be easier with less wait times… that’s good for the consumer.


“But it’s more of the same, quite frankly, compared to previous generations. It’s nothing that’s disruptive or super innovative, if you ask me.”

He added: “Game hardware used to be about custom chips that you couldn’t do on PCs. Now you look at it and they’re just grabbing stuff that already exists."

I disagree with him in point of Cloudgaming and the Tegrachip in the Switch was ok.

All those words and then you add the bolded part.

 

[BRiT]

My prediction about the price (I think this is what you were asking): from $449 to $499.

Yeah, I dont expect pricing details from either side until July/August depending on manufacturing status. I really have no idea on price because what we know we're getting (and hope we're getting) is so far beyond my expectations.

 

[Frenetic Pony]

I hope to hear more about things that make the architecture more approachable to developers or provide infrastructure for the platform, much like the APIs and in-built hardware Microsoft disclosed for storage, data residency, latency, and variable refresh rate.
There are signs that there was investment into backwards compatibility and integration between the hardware and OS for that purpose, and there could be other similar mechanisms since there's supposedly a custom storage subsystem that can give developers more control, and various disclosures or patents from AMD or Sony that might provide some services like the Xbox reveal touched on.

I think those other engineering efforts outside of headline specs could be very important, since Sony went with the more approachable platform in the current gen and the platform now needs to handle a complex transition for hardware and storage. I would say the risk is higher, depending on how in-house some of these efforts are. Sony was not entirely successful with its firmware and platform engineering with the PS4, and I think things could have been somewhat different if its competition's efforts weren't divided into so many speculative non-core directions or implementing emergency changes to the whole architecture ahead of launch.
I'd like to see how broad and deep the engineering effort goes for both of the upcoming platforms.

This is exactly what I'm worried about with the Xsx. Cerny did a great job with the PS4 making it utterly approachable and giving it excellent tools and etc. And he's already stated he hopes to do better for the PS5. Even seen devs speculate, quite openly, that the PS4's success was partially down to how easy and accessible developing for the system was versus the Xbox One.

And all these accelerators and etc. along with mandating that they only work with format x or y or etc. And we've heard "we can unload unused parts of the texture automatically and pain free!" before. It sounded complicated and suspect then, it does now, and last I checked it didn't work in Vega basically at all. All these things sound... highly optimistic, and not exactly developer approachable or my favorite dictate "make it programmable and let the dev decide what to do with it".