‘Custom RT Solution’ sounds a lot like ‘Custom Cell Processor That Was A Mess Nobody Really Loved Until After Few Years Of Trying’.
Nah. I do firmly believe, as a couch tech lover myself, but mostly as a good business man, that both Sony and MS basically went to AMD, asked them what they could get in a specific time frame, with a specific budget, with whatever specific features they wanted, and AMD went: “Here you go, this is what we can make, you need a box this big and a cooling solution this good to make this run without burning millions of houses down. Thank you for the money. Good luck”
The notion that somehow Sony (or MS) would take the AMD APU and glue whatever ‘custom RT hardware’ they supposedly have on it - and there is zero evidence that they would even know what on earth that would look like - is bonkers.
This thread should be renamed the Bonkers & Baseless Next Gen Hardware Thread.
He said it was GPU accelerated or hardware accelerated?Raytracing is GPU accelerated on the PS5 as per Cerny so this is garbage.
Besides avoiding lower yields from having a larger 400mm^2 chip?I don't see any reason you'd want a separate chip to do RT, especially when the entire APU is already a SOC.
If only AMD had released several solutions that use high-bandwidth / low-latency communication between chiplets and I/O chips using Infinity Fabric over a substrate, during the past couple of years...?How are you going to do any low latency communication with the APU? What memory do you even talk to?
Agreed. The way she phrased it sounds a bit like "they just let us know they're using their own thing".Good observation. You'd think if both were using AMD's raytracing, she'd say, "Both consoles are using our raytracing."
The PS5 using a separate chip for RT would be much nicer as long as said RT chip was able to offload the majority of raytracing implementation overheads towards it.
The PS5 using a separate chip for RT would be much nicer as long as said RT chip was able to offload the majority of raytracing implementation overheads towards it.
However, in games where RT isn't needed the SeX would have a sizeable performance advantage. Plus, we'd also need to know if this same RT chip would process ray traced audio, or if the GPU still needs to distribute those 9.2TF for audio.
He said it was GPU accelerated or hardware accelerated?
“There is ray-tracing acceleration in the GPU hardware,” he says, “which I believe is the statement that people were looking for.”
There hasn't been any substantial sources of PS5 supposedly wanting to launch last year, it doesn't fit with any timeline. If this was originally a plan, then Sony screwed themselves up so much for not wanting to wait a year for generalized RT tech from AMD and still getting delayed.The PS5 using a separate chip for RT would be much nicer as long as said RT chip was able to offload the majority of raytracing implementation overheads towards it.
However, in games where RT isn't needed the SeX would have a sizeable performance advantage. Plus, we'd also need to know if this same RT chip would process ray traced audio, or if the GPU still needs to distribute those 9.2TF for audio.
Besides avoiding lower yields from having a larger 400mm^2 chip?
Even more if you consider the PS5 was initially thought to launch this year, using 2019's 7nm yields.
If only AMD had released several solutions that use high-bandwidth / low-latency communication between chiplets and I/O chips using Infinity Fabric over a substrate, during the past couple of years...?
https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/ray-tracing-is-in-all-next-gen-consoles.2571546/#post-39954331Nah... The PS5 has a very different RT solution compared to what is implemented in DXR. Even the Xbox has an upgraded pipeline. So, hibrid RT will be the way to go in the future,
No, AMD publicly stated that the Xbox is using their RDNA Ray Tracing solution, they never did the same for PlayStation.AMD is only allowed to say what sony and ms already publicized. None of them said whether their RT solution is from AMD or from their own development. So AMD phrased it accordingly.
This processor builds upon the significant innovation of the AMD Ryzen™ "Zen 2" CPU core and a "Navi" GPU based on next-generation Radeon™ RDNA gaming architecture including hardware-accelerated raytracing.
Cerney states "RT acceleration is in the GPU hardware".
I fully expect the PS5 to use a different solution than Xbox, here is an insight from one of the known console developers:
https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/ray-tracing-is-in-all-next-gen-consoles.2571546/#post-39954331
No, AMD publicly stated that the Xbox is using their RDNA Ray Tracing solution, they never did the same for PlayStation.
https://community.amd.com/community/gaming/blog/2019/06/09/amd-powers-microsoft-project-scarlett
It's highly possible that Sony's custom solution was developed early on, before AMD was even aware that DXR is coming, Sony requested an integration with AMD APUs, and AMD assisted with that. Microsoft however requested a DXR compatible solution from AMD, as the Xbox will use DX12 and DXR.I feel like if there are difference it would be on the API side....not the hardware.
It's highly possible that Sony's custom solution was developed early on, before AMD was even aware that DXR is coming, Sony requested an integration with AMD APUs, and AMD assisted with that. Microsoft however requested a DXR compatible solution from AMD, as the Xbox will use DX12 and DXR.
The timeline could go like this:
-Some time in 2015 (possibly), Sony and NVIDIA are developing their own RT solutions
-Microsoft gets wind of that, decides Xbox needs RT, and gathers HIVs to settle on a standard for RT on the PC/Xbox
-Microsoft develops DXR with the help of NVIDIA, AMD and Intel (in that order)
-AMD starts developing their own RT solution for their PC GPUs and the Xbox
-NVIDIA releases their own RT solution compatible with DXR, and even makes their own Vulkan RT solution at the same time
-2 Years later, AMD successfully releases their RT solution simultaneously on PC and Xbox
-Sony's RT solution is not compatible with DXR, and is custom made
"Unfortunately, it's too vague. For example, I read the tipster's comment as suggesting the Sony device would do lots of real-time ray tracing from occlusion to shadows to full bounce reflections and the Microsoft device would rely on tricks to emulate ray tracing. But another colleague read the exact same comment and interpreted it as how ray tracing might appear in titles re-released for the new system"
That's a great catch. AMD actually confirming they are designing MS RT solution. Again, it really makes sense with their PC - Xbox ecosystem to use 100% stuff from desktop AMD GPUs.I fully expect the PS5 to use a different solution than Xbox, here is an insight from one of the known console developers:
https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/ray-tracing-is-in-all-next-gen-consoles.2571546/#post-39954331
No, AMD publicly stated that the Xbox is using their RDNA Ray Tracing solution, they never did the same for PlayStation.
https://community.amd.com/community/gaming/blog/2019/06/09/amd-powers-microsoft-project-scarlett
In 2013, Mark Cerny was talking about the decision not to use RT hardware on PS4 because it would have forced devs to use that fancy hardware to get any good performance. They learned from the Cell. They were focussing on easy development on ps4: no fancy graphics hardware, unified memory, good tools. It was a counter reaction to the ps3 criticism by devs.I wonder. Did Sony start to consider RT console before RTX came up quite surprisingly?
They better add up all the ALUs of that section of the chip when they're ready to unveil a TF count.
In 2013, Mark Cerny was talking about the decision not to use RT hardware on PS4 because it would have forced devs to use that fancy hardware to get any good performance. They learned from the Cell. They were focussing on easy development on ps4: no fancy graphics hardware, unified memory, good tools. It was a counter reaction to the ps3 criticism by devs.
If he was considering RT hardware for PS4 it means they've been looking at this for a long time.
I disagree that its bonkers. I don't consider it highly plausible, but we've a number of pointers including Sony working on realtime RT solutions and employing RT talent. The patent is for a photon-mapping processor filed 2014, before RTX and DXR...The notion that somehow Sony (or MS) would take the AMD APU and glue whatever ‘custom RT hardware’ they supposedly have on it - and there is zero evidence that they would even know what on earth that would look like - is bonkers.