Baseless Next Generation Rumors with no Technical Merits [post E3 2019, pre GDC 2020] [XBSX, PS5]

[Nesh]

Another baseless rumor coming from reddit

Anyone with technical knowledge to confirm if this is sound?

 

[Proelite]

Anyone with technical knowledge to confirm if this is sound?

Arden has 56CUs active based on Github leak. 52/56 sounds made up.

 

[ultragpu]

Anyone with technical knowledge to confirm if this is sound?

Raytracing is GPU accelerated on the PS5 as per Cerny so this is garbage.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Anyone with technical knowledge to confirm if this is sound?

It all depends what the 'hardware raytracing' is doing and its certainly possible to have some raytracing stuff done on silicon external to the GPU's compute structures. There was quite a lot of speculation over that in the RT discussion.

Raytracing is GPU accelerated on the PS5 as per Cerny so this is garbage.

If the block is part of the GPU, it's GPU accelerated. Same as, say, video en/decoding. AMD (and every other GPU IHV) sticks a Media Engine on the GPU so it can compress and stream video without interrupting the game's rendering on the CUs.

I don't count this reddit as valid, but it's not impossible.

 

[PSman1700]

Isn't this software RT?

I read it as a mobile solution. So the PS5 is going to have a mobile RT solution, in some ways?

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Isn't this software RT?

Edit: My bad, you were talking about Local Ray. Yeah, it's apparently a software solution as it's been demoed on different GPUs.

...

Software RT will be RT run on the CPU or GPU through their ordinary code execution. Hardware RT involves RT bespoke to the task of accelerating RT. That hardware can be a discrete accelerator like a vector unit or video processing block, and can be on the CPU or GPU or a discrete chip, or it can be built into the CPU or GPU as part of it's general operation, such as floating-point maths acceleration or triangle-intersect operations in GPU shaders.

There are several RT acceleration methods. There's a possibility Sony is doing something different given their prior patents on photon mapping which seems to lend itself to the notion of a 'photon mapping' processor of some sort, but I've no idea what such hardware might look like or if it's at all plausible.

 

[PSman1700]

I doubt the PS5 nor XSX will use anything other then AMD's RT.

 

[chris1515]

I doubt the PS5 nor XSX will use anything other then AMD's RT.

Jim Ryan told the five things into the slide are differentiating an there is hardware RT it probably means the PS5 raytracing solution is different than the AMD/XSX/DXR implementation.

Here they are very precise they are under NDA until second half of 2020 for talking about console or mobile deal. Probably they can't talk before product release.

 

[Proelite]

I doubt the PS5 nor XSX will use anything other then AMD's RT.

Arden has RT block on GPU. GLX is GL0/1.

 

[chris1515]

Arden has RT block on GPU. GLX is GL0/1.

And not the Oberon

 

[Proelite]

And not the Oberon

I am not seeing the same entries in the Oberon/Ariel files/tabs. I've looked!

 

[iroboto]

Anyone with technical knowledge to confirm if this is sound?

I have strong doubts someone knows the engineering choices of both chips.

 

[iroboto]

https://venturebeat.com/2020/01/07/...-real-time-ray-tracing-on-2-watt-smartphones/

More information here. This is Ps5 or a chinese console or a Switch Pro.

?
Can you walk me through how we are arriving to local ray for PS5 as a possibility? Why not AMD?

 

[chris1515]

?
Can you walk me through how we are arriving to local ray for PS5 as a possibility? Why not AMD?

Because Sony solution seems to be different of Xbox Series X from what Jim Ryan told at CES. Maybe it is custom by Sony, local Ray, Power VR but not AMD. And in Oberon github leak there is no AMD raytracing on Sony side.

 

[AbsoluteBeginner]

Because Sony solution seems to be different of Xbox Series X from what Jim Ryan told at CES. Maybe it is custom by Sony, local Ray, Power VR but not AMD. And in Oberon github leak there is no AMD raytracing on Sony side.

Its not there because Oberon test is completely different from Arden/Sparkman one. I wouldnt use it as confirmation of anything, but lets keep an open mind.

 

[BRiT]

Differentiating from what? From the PS4/4Pro. That's how I'd read any PR slide now.

 

[upnorthsox]

Anyone with technical knowledge to confirm if this is sound?

IMO anything that references 9.2 TFLOPS is merrily just someones opinion on the rumor of the day.

As to Sony going with a custom RT IP block, that rumor 's been out there since the beginning and nothing I've seen has shot it down. So....

An interesting reply from a Lisa Su interview this week:

Dean Takahashi, VentureBeat: Is real time ray-tracing in graphics going to be as big as NVIDIA says it is?

LS: I’ve said in the past that ray tracing is important, and I still believe that, but if you look at where we are today it is still very early. We are investing heavily in ray tracing and investing heavily in the ecosystem around it – both of our console partners have also said that they are using ray tracing. You should expect that our discrete graphics as we go through 2020 will also have ray tracing. I do believe though it is still very early, and the ecosystem needs to develop. We need more games and more software and more applications to take advantage of it. At AMD, we feel very good about our position on ray tracing.

Now maybe it her being coy but if they were using AMD's RT solution she would know more than what they say they are using. Again, maybe it's her being coy but it does leave open the possibility of a non-AMD RT solution.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Now maybe it her being coy but if they were using AMD's RT solution she would know more than what they say they are using. Again, maybe it's her being coy but it does leave open the possibility of a non-AMD RT solution.

Good observation. You'd think if both were using AMD's raytracing, she'd say, "Both consoles are using our raytracing."

That said, NDA's and everything, she can't say anything about the consoles that the console companies haven't, so effectively her hands are tied in that respect. As you say, perhaps being coy, wanting to say, "and our RT tech is powering both consoles and its awesome," but she can't until they give permission for her to talk about their console hardware.

 

[Nesh]

Good observation. You'd think if both were using AMD's raytracing, she'd say, "Both consoles are using our raytracing."

That said, NDA's and everything, she can't say anything about the consoles that the console companies haven't, so effectively her hands are tied in that respect. As you say, perhaps being coy, wanting to say, "and our RT tech is powering both consoles and its awesome," but she can't until they give permission for her to talk about their console hardware.

It may not be related to console NDA either. AMD may be holding their plans hidden in general. They have not shown any RT capable hardware in general and they are probably waiting for the right time to make a proper annuncement of their RT capable solutions

 

[upnorthsox]

Jim Ryan told the five things into the slide are differentiating an there is hardware RT it probably means the PS5 raytracing solution is different than the AMD/XSX/DXR implementation.

Here they are very precise they are under NDA until second half of 2020 for talking about console or mobile deal. Probably they can't talk before product release.

Just my opinion but it could be that Localray will officially support the PS5 RT hardware. They could do the same with AMD's RT solution too so it may not be a big deal.