Based on a educated guess, console development cost. Thanks

[Ooh-videogames]

I'm curious, because of a discussion I was having with Q about the differences on how much Nintendo, Microsoft, and Sony are spending or willing to spend on home console development.

IIRC, Nintendo spent 1 billion on the Gecko processor. The money obviously involved manufacturing, design, and other fees. What I would like know is how much of 1 billion would have to go towards design. I don't get the feeling Nintendo or MS have to put that much into R&D for technology that already exsist, unlike the Flipper that was designed from the ground up.

Do Nintendo own the Flipper design, or is it a ip of ATI.

 

[Sonic]

It is IP of ArtX and since ArtX was bought by ATI it is now IP of ATI.

I don't recall Nintendo paying $1 billion for the Gecko chip, maybe on the entire console including marketing and initial game development. That is an awful lot of money and it would be very hard to see a return of investment just on that chip alone.

The Flipper itself may not have existed but Artx did have other working graphics chip at the time to base it off of.

 

[jvd]

Yea I have to agree with sonic. I think r&d for a system will be around 500-1 billion depending on the company. I would expect ms to spend more than nintendo on a system.

I can't see it being that much more. Most of the tech is already being made and most likely companys are paying for the tech. I.e ms getting ip from ati and the same with nintendo. Since ati is already researching this ip for future chips of thier own the cost of development is most likely split between the two and then ms or nintendo pays per a fixed fee per chip that they end up producing for this.


Sony is a little diffrent as they went and made brand new fabs for the ps3 (which wont be used just for that but thier main purpose is for ps3)

 

[PC-Engine]

Sonic knows how much it cost to develop DC so GCN should be similar they're both using basically off-the-shelf parts.

 

[London Geezer]

Sonic knows how much it cost to develop DC so GCN should be similar they're both using basically off-the-shelf parts.

I guess u mean your usual "loosely" off-the shelf...

 

[Ooh-videogames]

IBM and Nintendo have entered into a multi-year, $1 billion technology agreement under which IBM will manufacture the custom designed 400 MHz Gekko processor for Dolphin.

I found this at IGNCube, and its also on IBM microelectronics site. I remember reading it 3 years ago. But I may be reading it wrong.

 

[Sonic]

I am not sure if that means Nintendo is dishing out that much money for Gekko or if IBM is also putting in an investment for it. This is the first time I have seen this and if anyone else can clarify on it then I would geatly appreciate it.

 

[Qroach]

The last I recall hearing was that nitnendo wa staking a loss on Gamecube once it came down to $99. I'm not sur eif that's still happening, but it's possible. Nintendo certianly isn't making as much money off 3rd party sales as they once were.

Btw, nintendo doesn't own the graphics chip in Gamecube. ART-X owned the design, and it's now owned by ATI. Also at one time ART-X planne don releasing a PC video card using a very similar chip, but they never got that far and sold out to ATI.

Anyway from what I understand nintendo made a licensing deal that basically paid for the hardware form IBM and ATI by giving them a portion of each game sold. So in othe rwords there wasn't any huge payment up front and for each ship ment like MS has to make with Nvidia and Intel.

 

[V3]

http://www.eetimes.com/story/OEG19990512S0025

LOS ANGELES — In a stunning coup for its new Pervasive Computing strategy, IBM Microelectronics has won the design for the next-generation Nintendo game console ICs. The estimated $1 billion win, snatched from the jaws of long-time Nintendo partner NEC Corp., has the potential to make IBM the dominant figure in ASICs at the 0.18-micron generation, and to establish the PowerPC as the highest-volume RISC processor.

$1 billion is also the cost for every Gekko. Basically Nintendo bought Gekkos in very large quantity.

 

[SegaR&D]

That is correct

 

[Guden Oden]

Sonic knows how much it cost to develop DC so GCN should be similar they're both using basically off-the-shelf parts.

Um, dude, the only off-the-shelf part in GC is probably that round 9V DC-in power plug...

CPU is custom, GPU is highly custom, as is main RAM, optical drive etc.

 

[Wunderchu]

Interview: IBM Marketing, Mark Lefebvre

We talk to IBM about its relationship with Nintendo, new brand marketing, and future prospects.


December 10, 2001 - In May of 1999, Nintendo announced the soon-to-be-GameCube "Project Dolphin" and a cast of major industry partners that would help the next-generation console become a reality. One of the biggest surprises and equally biggest partners was IBM, who entered into a $1 billion multi-year agreement to design and manufacture the GameCube CPU.



IGNcube: The initial deal, which was announced in May of 1999, was a multi-year $1 billion agreement. What did that entail?

Mark Lefebvre: I wasn't involved with a the development of that agreement. I would say, however, that not only did it lay out the ground work for the Nintendo GameCube and Gekko chip, but we're collaborating with them, as you can imagine, on future generations of the technology.

[source: http://cube.ign.com/articles/100/100361p1.html ]

 

[Megadrive1988]

Indeed the roughly 1 billion dollar IBM-Nintendo deal for Dolphin/Gamecube CPU was announced in May 1999

http://www.google.com/groups?selm=3739b64c.14223499@news.mindspring.com&output=gplain

Date: 1999/05/12

The pact between IBM and Nintendo is worth about $1 billion, a source familiar with the deal told The Associated Press today.

Dreamcast is not really using using off-the-shelf parts. less so than Xbox.

Hitachi SH-4 was mainly created FOR Sega, even though SH-4 was used in other devices.

the PowerVR2DC is a custom part derived from the PowerVR2, which itself was only used in 1 or a handful of PC cards (Neon250) the main use was for DC/NAOMI.

the Dreamcast audio processor was a custom part from Yamaha with an ARM CPU.

the CD-ROM drive was custom.

 

[PC-Engine]

CPU is custom, GPU is highly custom, as is main RAM, optical drive etc.

And the point is still unchanged ie cost for the developmetnt of DC would be similar to GCN

Unless you think PPC 750CXe based Gecko is more custom than SH-4

...or the Panasonic MiniDVD drive is more custom than the Yamaha GD-ROM drive...

 

[archie4oz]

Unless you think PPC 750CXe based Gecko is more custom than SH-4

It is... There's some pretty extensive customizations to Gekko over a standard 750...

 

[PC-Engine]

back to your old ways of splitting hairs...again..

Was the SH-4 used in any devices other than DC? What was the SIMD unit used for in these products?

 

[Ty]

back to your old ways of splitting hairs...again..

Was the SH-4 used in any devices other than DC? What was the SIMD unit used for in these products?

I thought the SH-4 was used in many applications even including such mundane appliances as microwave ovens!

 

[PC-Engine]

back to your old ways of splitting hairs...again..

Was the SH-4 used in any devices other than DC? What was the SIMD unit used for in these products?

I thought the SH-4 was used in many applications even including such mundane appliances as microwave ovens!

At the time of DC and before, I don't think SH-4 was used for anything. I know SH-3 was used in WinCE in subnote devices. SH-4 core was probably a request from SEGA since the SIMD vector unit would only be required for stuff like 3D. In that respect the SH-4 was a completely customized core based on the Super Highway ISA tailored specifically after SEGA's needs.

 

[jvd]

THe sh-4 was in design phase when sega went to them. IT then had its flops rating beefed up alot. But after that it was used in everything from video game systems to microwaves to tvs . Even some palm pilots and caculators .

Looks like hataci / sega beat sony to the cell computing

 

[Fox5]

Unless you think PPC 750CXe based Gecko is more custom than SH-4

It is... There's some pretty extensive customizations to Gekko over a standard 750...

Pretty sure it's just less cache, unneeded instructions removed, and a nintendo customized version of what is probably similar to SSE.(I think nintendo had 64 instructions added in)

BTW, wasn't the sh4 in some dvd players or settop boxes?