ATi responses challenge of NV30 with R350

[Derek Smart [3000AD]]

]I know that this is the normal tactic around here, but if you don't quit f*cking around with my posts, I'm going to make it my next mission to take apart every damn thing you post, twist it and bury you in froth. Trust me, you'll be one miserable SOB by the time I'm done. And you'll get all the blame (from your friends) for encouraging me to detract from the general spirit of the forum.

You will, sir, do no such thing. No one will.

I'm sure as hell glad YOU think so. Let him carry on while these pissants sit by and watch - yet berate me when the shoe is on the other foot.

 

[SirPauly]

You will, sir, do no such thing. No one will.

Don't you think using the word;'BERATE' is just a tad bit too strong to use here Dr. Smart?

It seems if someone just disagrees with you in any way you offer words like: "FUCK-PISS-OFF-PRICKS!" And if you agree with the person.....well, you offer things like, " you're starting to get it."

Correct me if I am off-base here.

I respect your ability and your game -- it truly has a lot of depth and also feel like you received the shaft from ATI with no W-buffer support.

But why do you seem to be so hostile at times?

Or is hostile too strong of a word to use here?

 

[Pete]

Is there any factual information about the R350 chip?

Has ATI given out details of the improvements over the R300 chip?

When is this chip going to be used if ever?

How can anyone talk about drivers on a chip that doesn't even appear to exist?

I could say much the same about the NV30, at the rate it's progressing.

A little pseudo-code, if I may:

if(b3D.ignores(DerekSmartPhD))
{
  ++forumPeace;
  ++forumSignalToNoiseRatio;

  --petesBloodPressure;
}
if(derekSmartPhD.ignores(flamebait))
{
  ++dereksProductivity;  // reasonable assumption
  ++forumSignalToNoiseRatio;
  --forumUselessMachoPosturing;
}

Cheers.

 

[DocC]

In the interest of steering this back to Derek's hijacked topic, Derek do you have any response for demalion's post? He refuted most of your claims that attempted to prove that ATI has "piss-poor drivers", and did it without misquoting you or throwing around unnecessary insults.

Does this mean the main reason you feel ATI's drivers suck is because of the 2 driver bugs you exposed in your game (as well as the lack of w-buffer...which from what I've read may or may not even exist in hw in the 9700)? If so, fair enough.

If this is what you see as "piss-poor drivers" then can maybe everyone here accept that people have different thresholds of what is "piss-poor." Then we can finally go back to the productive discussions that used to be here before this recent round of Derek Smart flamewars started. And I can go back to lurking on what was one of the few interesting message boards on the net.

C

 

[Althornin]

]

I'm sure as hell glad YOU think so. Let him carry on while these pissants sit by and watch - yet berate me when the shoe is on the other foot.

You just dont get it do you?
NO ONE here has declared even a possible intention of starting an all out flame war - except you.
Yet you seem upset that you get called on it by a mod.
I have a little intellectual adventure for you. Pretend you are NOT Derek Smart (just for 10 mins) and drop all assumptions that are DS related. Then go back and read your posts. If you do not then realize why people are irritated with you, and do not then realize that it is possible to disagree with you without belonging to some occult "fanATIc fanboi collective" then i can say that you didnt even bother to try it.
And Grall - i will not "tread lightly" around DS just because he has a short temper. That short temper is HIS problem, not mine, not yours, not anyone elses. I am pissed that he has been allowed to continute frothing at the mouth as much as he has. As much as he bitches about everyone here hating on him, if his posts came from ANYONE else (possible exception: JC ) they would have been banned by now.

 

[BoardBonobo]

I just think he has a Phd in anal retentiveness and feels the need to bring as much attention as he can to the fact he's a little known dev. I agree with some of the points he makes, I just think his approach to presenting them is shite. If it wasn't for these forums I would never have heard of Battlecruiser (tm), and I would never have heard of D.Smart Phd.

 

[Typedef Enum]

I don't think Type's opinion means much to me considering that horrid article on AA

That's awfully kind of you

I realize that I cannot come close to the really in-depth analysis that you would find in an Anandtech review...or the really "straight shooter" approach of HardOCP...a place that allows personal motives to determine whether something even gets reviewed...or the awesome reviews that one would find @ Gamers Depot, where gaining 1,500 3DMarks guarantees a "10/10" review and/or not finding a single negative for a GeForce3 when it was first reviewed....so on, and so forth.

 

[Hellbinder]

Derek,

what I dont understand is Why are you so totally one sided and unreasonable? to the extent that you will even grab Out of context partial Quotes from Rage3d? What really irritates me is that you will completely overlook issues with Nvidia.. and in the next breath completely overstate issues with ATi. (to the point of being a complete and total a$$hole IMO)

Both the GF2 and GF3 had considerable lockup and driver issues when they debuted. Why do you insist on blowing the rather similar issues with the 9700 out of proportion? I have no lockups or major driver issues. And that is a FACT. Neither do Many, many people. Sure there have been some driver isssues, and ATI has been all over the place addressing and fixing. Yet you act like Nvidia has never had any serious problems with release drivers for new products. Which is Completely and totally DISHONEST on your part. They have released or leaked over 100 Drivers in the past few years. Many, many which wre buggy as hell and totally unusable. Or i which broke certain features etc.. Before Nvnews was destroyed a few months ago they tech support areas were FILLED with the exact same kinds of problems that the 9700 is having.

I could write 2 pages of rebuttle to your contual one sided over stated tirades. No they are not calmley worded *BALLANCED* views. As anyone here can plainly see. Hoever such an undertaking is a complete waste of time where you are concerned.

Again, there is no doubt that there are some driver issues with the 9700. Nowever as it needs to be said. at least 95% of all games work PERFECTLY. Which for a new product does not rate the continual one sided, overstated attacks of ATi from you.

 

[Hellbinder]

Here is another example of a poster at Rage3D

MrGuy

Ive been with Nvidia since the release of their TNT, and have bought each successive version of their graphics cards. But today, because of the constant persistance of my father (he owns a 8500 and is happy with it), I went out and got a 9700pro, with the money I earned from the sale of my old computer/GeForce 3 =). Im very happy with it, since it runs perfectly, with the new 6178 drivers, its super fast and the quality is alot better. Im very happy to join the ATI Family.

And further down the same thread...

Ive seen alot of discussion on the board revision 1.3 topic. Ive got the 1.1 revision (as identified from my S/N), and it seems to run fine, but then again, ive got an Intel AGP 4x board. Im very sure it wouldnt be worth my time to RMA/get the 1.3, since all ATI basically did was change some electrical settings to get it to work at AGP 8x on "unclean boards" (VIA and SIS typically release standards that are unapproved or just releasing final stages. For example, DDR400 isnt even considered stable or useful yet, and ATA133 was also never widely adopted because of bus limitations. In the case of AGP 8x, VIA and SIS have never been very good implementers of the AGP standard (as seen throughout the history of their chipsets), and it is not the solid standard from Intel, as of yet. I believe that 1.3 revision is a quick fix for those boards in that the electrical settings on the graphics boards were tweaked so that it would run in compliance to the affected chipsets. Basically, if your planning on buying an Intel AGP 8x chipset, or just want extra performance, dont bother upgrading.)

You Derek instead of being reasonable... *especially* for someone with a damn doctorate.... And looking at the real issues regarding the 9700 and some systems... Choose to toally misrepresent whats going on. When i KNOW that you are perfectly capable of understanding the very thiings the above Poster does. Instead you go out of your way AGAIN.. To completely Misrepresent an issue that you CLEARLY UNDERSTAND are not so strange to be happening.

How can you so casually overlook the fact that the 9700 has 110 millioin transistors? Or that it nearly doubbles the power requirements of a GF4? The 9700 is 2x more complex that a P4. Why Am i having to explain this to you? Why do i have to SPELL IT OUT IN SIMPLE ENGLISH to a damn DOCTOR That some people have insufficient or Overloaded systems To toss one of these in?

Then there is the other side of this coin that tech support sites are FILLED with lockup issues etc.. for Nvidia products? That Mobo bioses,Drivers, game patches etc have been released to address issues?

This kind of one sided Spin is unacceptable IMO for someone who is a Freaking Professional game developer.

 

[rubank]

Hellbinder, I don´t know about this doctor thing
but it seems to me that, despite his cowboyish demeanour, the only thing Derek has in common with Doc Holliday is the phoney title.

 

[Nagorak]

Hellbinder, I don´t know about this doctor thing
but it seems to me that, despite his cowboyish demeanour, the only thing Derek has in common with Doc Holliday is the phoney title.

Uh-oh, looks like the gloves are coming off.

Seriously, not knowing anything about his credentials, I think he probably has more claim to being a doctor than Doc Holiday. LOL, you can't get much less deserving of a doctorate than him...

 

[martrox]

Dr. John Henry "Doc" Holliday was a dentist........ and, I might add, that there are other "Doc's" agound that tend to make you feel like you've had teeth pulled.....

 

[martrox]

I don't think Type's opinion means much to me considering that horrid article on AA

That's awfully kind of you

I realize that I cannot come close to the really in-depth analysis that you would find in an Anandtech review...or the really "straight shooter" approach of HardOCP...a place that allows personal motives to determine whether something even gets reviewed...or the awesome reviews that one would find @ Gamers Depot, where gaining 1,500 3DMarks guarantees a "10/10" review and/or not finding a single negative for a GeForce3 when it was first reviewed....so on, and so forth.

Type, bias is bias, even by degree...... and, over the years you have definately shown a heavy bias towards anything nVidia.... and against anything that competes with nVidia..... It would be one thing if you just gave your subjective first hand opinions (BTW, as opinions, not fact!), however, you tend to take heresay as fact, as you have in this thread.

 

[John Reynolds]

]
I'm sure as hell glad YOU think so. Let him carry on while these pissants sit by and watch - yet berate me when the shoe is on the other foot.

Derek, I'm not singling you out. I've sent PMs out to others asking them to cease and desist, but as Althornin stated I've seen no one else threaten an all-out flame war except you. I wouldn't tolerate that from John Carmack, so please don't take offense.

Regardless, I think this thread has run its course.