R400 by the end of this year? Surely a mistake (?)

[Entropy]

In an article today, digitimes stated that ATI

will start production of its newer R350, RV350 and R400 chips at the world’s largest foundry by the end of this year.

The worlds largest foundry being TSMC.

Here's the URL:
http://www.digitimes.com/NewsShow/Article.asp?datePublish=2002/12/13&pages=04&seq=28

Entropy

 

[RussSchultz]

Considering they have to do it in the next two weeks, I can only imagine its a mistake.

Whether technically possible or not, it would be marketting stupidity to flush the money used to develop the R300, RV350, R350 (assuming all these parts definately exist) and replace them so soon with a R400.

There are costs sunk into a design that you do not get back (mask costs, qualification costs, etc) except through selling parts. Shortening your products life means you lose money.

I personally think ATI is trying to fragment the market too far:
9000,9100,9500,9700, RV350, R350, plus somebody mentioned a 9000+AGP8x. (Or was it a 9100 plus agp8x)

 

[Dave Baumann]

Russ, whats being talked about is two generations of chips here so some of these will be replacements - this is little different to NV's 6 month cycle in that sometime they replace some of the chips, others all.

The 9000 + AGP8X will likely be a directly replacement to the 9000, much the same as NV17->NV18.

 

[RussSchultz]

I understand there will be replacements (I think the 9500/pro need to be replaced to get their costs down), but the 9000,9100,9000+agp8x all seem to be fighting for the same space at the same time. (OK, the 9100 is old now, so its ok to retire it and they likely go ttheir money from it), but the 9000 is still too young to be replaced with anything.

Well see how it all works out in the end, I'd just be wary as an investor that they're replacing their products too quickly. (A six month product release cycle doesn't mean you let a product only live for 6 months)

 

[Dave Baumann]

9100 only exists becuase they have a shedload of inventory on R200 chips, AFAIK. My guess is that that will drop off the radar once they deplete that.

 

[Sxotty]

9100 is sad, b/c it is like a geforce 4 mx,. It will confuse silly people, who will think it is directx9 compliant.

 

[RussSchultz]

Anybody who worries about DX9 won't be confused.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

OK, the 9100 is old now, so its ok to retire it and they likely go ttheir money from it), but the 9000 is still too young to be replaced with anything.

That depends on when the RV-350 ships.

The 9000 started shipping in volume in July. (Though there were rumors that the 9000 was "ready" a few months before that.) Sounds like RV-350 will ship maybe in spring or possibly summer. (Exact timing probably depends on what nVidia can ship, and when). That's 9-months to a year between the 9000 and RV-350.

I would say a 1 year cycle for replacing the value part is about right, give or take a few months. And again, ATi is not "discontinuing" the 9000. they are making it cheaper by going with a different foundry for it, enabling the 9000 design to still be a money maker for another year or so. So it's not like the 9000 design only has a life of less than one year.

By the time RV-350 ships, 9000 won't really be young at all.

I'd just be wary as an investor that they're replacing their products too quickly.

I would be rather relieved as an investor, because

1) just because ATI may have a technology ready to ship, doesn't mean they have to. Meaning: ATI is in the good position to be able to counter the competition, and set it's own timetable to maximize profits. (ATI controls more of its own destiny).

2) ATI is not simply replacing products. They are moving products down to cheaper selling points made viable by lowering the manufacturing costs, ala cheaper UMC foundry.

 

[McElvis]

will start production of its newer R350, RV350 and R400 chips at the world’s largest foundry by the end of this year.

About the R400...Might it not be very early samples (say, first tape out) going to the fab?

As far as I can remember, wasn't the R300 back from the fab at about Feb. last year?

 

[Sabastian]

will start production of its newer R350, RV350 and R400 chips at the world’s largest foundry by the end of this year.

About the R400...Might it not be very early samples (say, first tape out) going to the fab?

As far as I can remember, wasn't the R300 back from the fab at about Feb. last year?

Yeah sure it *might* be ..... but I doubt it. But if it is ATi has really got its target set on the crown. ATi pumping out tech at the rate it has is nothing short of amazing but now to add the R400!!??

 

[jvd]

It would be nice if they were getting samples of the r400 back already. They might want that as a summer part and getting early samples back now may really help them with the drivers. It would also be nice if to counter the geforce fx ati puts out the r350 and to counter the refresh of the fx they put out an r400. That would be my wet dream . well that and the porno stars in my bed room... but you don't need to know that

 

[Megadrive1988]

go ATI!



the R400 is prolly first sample. it won't be complete til early '03 methinks.
with introduction in summer, release in fall.

may it be a monsterous 16 piper

 

[antlers]

It's a mistake. All those chips are supposed to be in production by the end of 2003, not 2002. (Some, of course, will be sooner)

 

[Nebuchadnezzar]

It's a mistake. All those chips are supposed to be in production by the end of 2003, not 2002. (Some, of course, will be sooner)

Yeah sure and R350 & NV35 will be in production by end of 2004 ...

You're talking absolute BS. R350 is I think already in production (or will be in the next week or 2), RV350 in 2-3 weeks. R400 is end of Q2 2003.

 

[T2k]

It's a mistake. All those chips are supposed to be in production by the end of 2003, not 2002. (Some, of course, will be sooner)

WTF? What are you smokin'?

If they gonna release R400 - I assume you talk about this one and its derivetives only - next July-August timeframe then they need to start the production June at last...

 

[RussSchultz]

And I don't know about you, but July is before the end of the year in my calendar.

 

[Megadrive1988]

Don't forget R500, which is also in development. most likely a summer 2004 introduction, late summer/early fall release

 

[Tahir2]

I cant wait for R1000, I heard its gonna be smokin' !!!

 

[antlers]

RV350 and R350 taped out in November, there is no way they are in production before the end of the year--production ramp up in Mar if they push em along. R400 is nowhere near taping out, but it will be in production sometime in 2003. See how it all fits together? RV350, R350, R400 all in production in 2003, not 2002. The original quote was in error (if this year is interpreted as calendar 2002).

[Edited as per Dave's comment]

 

[Dave Baumann]

RV350 and R350 taped out last week

CMKRNL reported that NV31, R350 and RV350 had taped out "in the last couple of weeks" on the 22nd of Nov. Given that his process guesses were on the money and his track record...

[edit] Plus, and earlier DG report stated that RV350 is scheduled for ramp up later this month.