ATI - PS3 is Unrefined

[Dave Baumann]

The early PS3 Devkits had lower clocked DDE2 Cells, and Sli'ed (or not) 6800U.

Really? I though the current kits were the first to link Cell to a "PC" graphics card because previous ones didn't have either PCIe or AGP interfaces in them. I was under the impression that prior to the current kits some, such as Epic, were using a PC with SLI (basically what they were developing UE3 on anyway), or some had the "Cell Workstation" (but there weren't that many around).

My recolection is hazy though...

 

[Alpha_Spartan]

Alpha_Spartan, you know ibm is saying cell kicks ass, mercury too, epics saying ps3 kicks ass, but sure it's just PR but it's not only from sony.

I'd expect IBM to extol the virtues of Cell, but then again, I don't see them dissing Xenon either. I never denied that Cell "kicks ass" and as far as Epic goes, they've been political all along. I think they've done a good job of pimping the PS3 without comparing it to the Xbox 360 and vice versa.

 

[Farid]

Really? I though the current kits were the first to link Cell to a "PC" graphics card because previous ones didn't have either PCIe or AGP interfaces in them.

http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/docs/20050721/scei2_08.jpg

A picture is worth of a million words, I guess.

 

[Dave Baumann]

http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/docs/20050721/scei2_08.jpg
A picture is worth of a million words, I guess.

Not being funny, but thats a Cell evaluation kit, not the PS3 Evaluation kit, which basically appears to be the unit that I was thinking of (although with an uprated Cell now, apparently). Did the Cell evaluation kit go out to many?

 

[Farid]

Not being funny, but thats a Cell evaluation kit

The Huge Microwave oven was the only Devkit available for the PS3 at that time.

Did the Cell evaluation kit go out to many?

Simply put: hell, no.

Also, I think that in your previous post you were refering to the rumored early Cell workstations (Like the one used for the IBM Raycasting demo), which didn't have any Geforce cards in them.
For those, the only EU developer that I heard had one, is SCEE London. Actually, that's the only the developer I heard had one, period. Not that others didn't have access to one, but I've no info about that.

 

[Dave Baumann]

OK, found the translation. Seems the Cell evalutation was internal, with a few external, but the PS3 eval system was hot on its heels. This is all written post E3 anyway - Spring in Japan would be ~ our autumn?

 

[mckmas8808]

He (Huddy) made some valid points though, like that RSX is last minute last resort option, which I agree... and I also don't expect PS3 to pull of Motorstorm and Killzone CGI in realtime...
I wish sony would start to show some games already.

Nice to know that you seen the Sony <-> Nvidia contracts.

Of course ATI were working with MS with the Xenos for 4 years right, while Sony and Nvidia were working on the RSX for 2 months before E3 2005.

 

[High Lander]

Nice to know that you seen the Sony <-> Nvidia contracts.

Of course ATI were working with MS with the Xenos for 4 years right, while Sony and Nvidia were working on the RSX for 2 months before E3 2005.

Sony told us some months BEFORE E3 2005, that they have been working with nvidia for the last 2 YEARS (not months).

nVidia is into RSX for 3 years now.

 

[mckmas8808]

Sony told us some months BEFORE E3 2005, that they have been working with nvidia for the last 2 YEARS (not months).

nVidia is into RSX for 3 years now.

I know I was being sarcastic. Some people here just make me laugh because they will think that Sony just threw the RSX in the PS3 just like MS did with their GPU in the Xbox.

It's even more funny to see ATI actually saying this too. They must read Xbox forums too.

 

[The_Standard]

Sony told us some months BEFORE E3 2005, that they have been working with nvidia for the last 2 YEARS (not months).

nVidia is into RSX for 3 years now.

Actually, NVIDIA announced their involvement with PS3 in Dec. last year.

"David Roman: NVIDIA has been working on aspects of Sony Computer Entertainment Inc.'s next generation system for the past 2 years."​

Link: http://gear.ign.com/articles/571/571598p1.html

 

[Hardknock]

It's even more funny to see ATI actually saying this too. They must read Xbox forums too.

No actually they are a lot more knowledgable about this than you are. Carry on.

 

[one]

Really? I though the current kits were the first to link Cell to a "PC" graphics card because previous ones didn't have either PCIe or AGP interfaces in them. I was under the impression that prior to the current kits some, such as Epic, were using a PC with SLI (basically what they were developing UE3 on anyway), or some had the "Cell Workstation" (but there weren't that many around).

My recolection is hazy though...

Have you watched the pre-E3 Sony conference? If you don't think Tim Sweeney is a liar...
http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/05/16/news_6124681.html

To show off the PlayStation 3's graphical brawn, Sony showed several game demos, including an Unreal 3 engine show-off of what appeared to be Unreal Tournament 2007. In what must come as a relief to developers, Epic Games' Tim Sweeney was on hand to vouch for the PS3, saying it was "easy to program for" and that Epic had received its first PS3 hardware two months ago. He proved the tech demo was real-time by showing it again and by manipulating the camera and zooming in.

http://consolewar.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3140617

The first glimpse of the PlayStation 3's in-game capabilities, however, came from the guys at Epic Games. Coming off buzz from their Gears of Wars footage on Xbox 360, CEO and founder Tim Sweeny showed what the company managed to produce on the PlayStation 3 with only two months experience with the hardware. What attendees were shown was short real-time demonstration of a human character (who appears to be taken from the upcoming Unreal Tournament 2007) equipped with a rocket launching squaring off against a robotic menace. After the battle, Epic Games rewound the footage and proved its real-time visuals by manipulating the camera view during the pre-arranged sequence. Though they didn't control the characters themselves, with only two months of development under their belt, it's already impressive.

The same demo was also played at PS Meeting in September, with more details. AFAIK it was demoed in other venues too.
http://media.ps3.ign.com/articles/635/635625/vid_1180296.html
This recent article is a good read about the PS3 version of UT2007.
http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showpost.php?p=653851&postcount=11

Basically, it seems Mr. Richard Huddy managed to ditch his credibility completely.

 

[Hardknock]

Sony told us some months BEFORE E3 2005, that they have been working with nvidia for the last 2 YEARS (not months).

nVidia is into RSX for 3 years now.

Ok, lets use a little common sense here. If Nvidia and Sony have been actually working on RSX for 3 years now, why is it based off the G70 core and not an all new GPU with console specific features? Seems they wasted a lot of R&D time and money wouldn't you say?

 

[weaksauce]

Ok, lets use a little common sense here. If Nvidia and Sony have been actually working on RSX for 3 years now, why is it based off the G70 core and not an all new GPU with console specific features? Seems they wasted a lot of R&D time and money wouldn't you say?

Has nvidia really said it is based on g70? They said they were similar on some points. Anyhow, how do you know g70 isn't based on rsx?

 

[pegisys]

Has nvidia really said it is based on g70? They said they were similar on some points. Anyhow, how do you know g70 isn't based on rsx?

I think people say it's based on the G70 because nvidia said they would have a faster part on the market for the PC by the time the PS3 come out

that and the facts of the specs that have came out are close to what the G70 offers

 

[The_Standard]

Ok, lets use a little common sense here. If Nvidia and Sony have been actually working on RSX for 3 years now, why is it based off the G70 core and not an all new GPU with console specific features? Seems they wasted a lot of R&D time and money wouldn't you say?

Who says it isn't an all-new GPU without console-specific features? Certainly not NVIDIA...

David Roman: "We’ve been working with them to produce a customized version that is customized specifically to connect that to the cell processor, so that they could work together.​

Link: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/editorial/display/ces2005.html

 

[one]

I think people say it's based on the G70 because nvidia said they would have a faster part on the market for the PC by the time the PS3 come out

Not by the time, it's after.

 

[weaksauce]

I think people say it's based on the G70 because nvidia said they would have a faster part on the market for the PC by the time the PS3 come out

that and the facts of the specs that have came out are close to what the G70 offers

But now people are saying it's based on the g71 too because it'll have 90nm too and more pipelines, as RSX I guess or has it been confirmed it has 32? Anyhow, isn't it still possible that both g70 and rsx are being built of the same scheme, that none of them are the original arcitecture? I mean that, without sony nvidia might not have had g70 as it is today?
Or I don't know, I'm just guessing a bit.

 

[cbarcus]

OK, found the translation. Seems the Cell evalutation was internal, with a few external, but the PS3 eval system was hot on its heels. This is all written post E3 anyway - Spring in Japan would be ~ our autumn?

Autumn where? Europe, North America, and Japan are all in the Northern hemisphere, so their Spring is also ours.

 

[pegisys]

But now people are saying it's based on the g71 too because it'll have 90nm too and more pipelines, as RSX I guess or has it been confirmed it has 32? Anyhow, isn't it still possible that both g70 and rsx are being built of the same scheme, that none of them are the original arcitecture? I mean that, without sony nvidia might not have had g70 as it is today?
Or I don't know, I'm just guessing a bit.

well the G70 and G71 are in the same family so I doubt it's going to be much different, just faster with more pipes, I also doubt that sony had anything to do with th G70 since it's the design they are using is simular to there past technology

Not by the time, it's after.

you sure they said after, I think that would have been a no brainer and not worth mentioning