Astronomy and space exploration

[nutball]

There's not a big red detonation button in mission control these days.

I find that hard to believe.

I know that F9 FTS is basically autonomous and is generally trusted 100% after so many launches, but I find it hard to believe that there's not a human in the loop, ie. the Range Safety Officer, someone essentially completely independent of SpaceX and mission control, who doesn't get the final say. I very, very much doubt this is true at Canaveral or VdB (given the proximity of military interests), and if it was true at Boca Chica with the first launch of something this size then the FAA has dropped the ball big-time.

 

[nutball]

Also, SKY DONUTS for the win!

"Sky DONUTS are the best kind of donuts"

- Homer Simpson (probably)

 

[cheapchips]

I find that hard to believe.

I know that F9 FTS is basically autonomous and is generally trusted 100% after so many launches, but I find it hard to believe that there's not a human in the loop, ie. the Range Safety Officer, someone essentially completely independent of SpaceX and mission control, who doesn't get the final say. I very, very much doubt this is true at Canaveral or VdB (given the proximity of military interests), and if it was true at Boca Chica with the first launch of something this size then the FAA has dropped the ball big-time.

When they first flew F9 with AFSS, the Space Wing deliberately left the seat for range safety empty as a statement. I do also find it hard to believe there's no human in the loop somewhere as a last resort though, especially on an experimental launch like Thursday's.

Only on Falcon 9: Automated system can terminate SpaceX rocket launches

During SpaceX’s last launch, an automated system, not a person, would have destroyed the rocket if it flew off course.

eu.floridatoday.com

 

[Silent_Buddha]

When they first flew F9 with AFSS, the Space Wing deliberately left the seat for range safety empty as a statement. I do also find it hard to believe there's no human in the loop somewhere as a last resort though, especially on an experimental launch like Thursday's.

Only on Falcon 9: Automated system can terminate SpaceX rocket launches

During SpaceX’s last launch, an automated system, not a person, would have destroyed the rocket if it flew off course.

eu.floridatoday.com

That's absolutely insane, it's as if they believe that nothing ever goes wrong with automated systems. Which is true ... until something goes wrong. It's why even for something as simple as a conveyor belt, you have big red buttons and lines strung up that you can pull to manually stop it.

Regards,
SB

 

[cheapchips]

There's plenty of context to this quote, but can't pretend that I didn't do a sensible chuckle when I read it.

“There’s always a chance, although extremely remote, that an individual is going to make a mistake. Software’s not going to.”

 

[hoom]

'I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that'
-Starship flight control probably

Software doesn't make mistakes but programmers certainly can.

 

[Mariner]

I'd imagine Musk has a special app on his phone...

 

[Davros]

'I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that'

That was an actual error message on a program I wrote

 

[nutball]

That was an actual error message on a program I wrote

Yeah, me too.

Dave didn't get the joke.

 

[Deleted member 2197]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1649430915532357632

 

[cheapchips]

They may have been pretty close to disaster. The normally buried white pipes at the right hand edge of the pit are the propellant lines. There's not a safety valve between that point and the tank farm. If they'd severed...boom!

They already had watercooled steel pad under construction. It was a few months away from completion so they took the risk on the heat resistant / ablative concrete. It's still an open question as to whether it was worth the punt. Gaining actual launch and flight data sooner vs pad repairs possibly pushing the next flight later.

 

[eloic]

Dunno... This whole unpreparedness thing makes me feel uncomfortable, because we ALL knew the launch pad wasn't properly prepared and, when some of us said a few things about it, we got aggressive fan answers like "you're not an engineer, they know what they're doing, STFU!".

I'm really puzzled as to why they did things this way. I honestly can't understand it. All these time (months... years?), there have been many of these friendly "warnings" and concerns by many who've been following the whole progress, so even if their engineers didn't get their lightbulbs lit on their own, they surely read all those comments but they did it this way anyway......

Now the FAA will be more reluctant to grant further permissions.

 

[nutball]

so even if their engineers didn't get their lightbulbs lit on their own, they surely read all those comments but they did it this way anyway......

I mean you know the answer, right? There's only one lightbulb at SpaceX.

 

[eloic]

I mean you know the answer, right? There's only one lightbulb at SpaceX.

Oh, yes, THAT lightbulb, but still...

 

[cheapchips]

Dunno... This whole unpreparedness thing makes me feel uncomfortable, because we ALL knew the launch pad wasn't properly prepared and, when some of us said a few things about it, we got aggressive fan answers like "you're not an engineer, they know what they're doing, STFU!".

I'm really puzzled as to why they did things this way. I honestly can't understand it. All these time (months... years?), there have been many of these friendly "warnings" and concerns by many who've been following the whole progress, so even if their engineers didn't get their lightbulbs lit on their own, they surely read all those comments but they did it this way anyway......

Now the FAA will be more reluctant to grant further permissions.

SpaceX did their analysis and accepted the risk the concrete floor could pose to a successful launch. Anyone saying they knew how it would turn out either way being disingenuous. Or just being the usual stan/antistan, for want of a better word.

We won't know if it was the correct decision to launch for months. They'll have either fixed up the damage, installed the proper floor and flown again using the excellent data they did get, or we'll be waiting ages for the next flight while they fix the launch site.

The FAA 'mishap review' is a normal process for this sort of test flight when there's a potential that debris to landed outside of an agreed area. It's nothing worth hand wringing over at this stage. Anyone doing so is just trying to promote themselves with unnecessary drama

edit: mishap description

 

[nutball]

Pushing is not the problem.

You push from the safe side. Do the safe thing, then push the limits.

Especially if you have contractual and/or schedule pressures. Be it NASA or billionaires.

The launch site is fucked. It will be 4-6 months until the next launch. Remember that this launch was supposed to happen about a year ago on Elontime. He says 1-2 months which makes him look like a total fuckwit.

They've worried some people who are paying them money to launch humans on this thing.

Whereas they could have just done the normal thing.

You don't have to be an engineer to realise they done fucked up.

 

[cheapchips]

Pushing is not the problem.

You push from the safe side. Do the safe thing, then push the limits.

Especially if you have contractual and/or schedule pressures. Be it NASA or billionaires.

The launch site is fucked. It will be 4-6 months until the next launch. Remember that this launch was supposed to happen about a year ago on Elontime. He says 1-2 months which makes him look like a total fuckwit.

They've worried some people who are paying them money to launch humans on this thing.

Whereas they could have just done the normal thing.

You don't have to be an engineer to realise they done fucked up.

My current view is that If the launch site is fixed in 4-6 months, rather than in E**ntime, that's roughly when the second flight would have been had they waited. It wouldn't be a further schedule slip and they've gained data that'll help that flight.

I'll change my mind if they next flight isn't until next year or if the FAA flags up unacceptable risk with public or environmental safety.

 

[WhiningKhan]

How do engineers at SpaceX change a lightbulb?

They don't. Lightbulb changes engineers at SpaceX.

 

[hoom]

Super awesome footage from a bunch of angles here

You've probably seen footage of the car getting taken out by debris in the parking lot a couple of hundred meters from the pad, this includes the footage from camera (s?) in the car & a super-clear tracking shot right up to detonation.
Big cudos to him for posting it without any comentary

 

[Deleted member 2197]

Brace yourself,as the renowned American physicist Michio Kaku unveils a discovery that's nothing short of revolutionary. Brought to light by none other than the legendary James Webb Space Telescope,which may have proven that time does not exist! Ready to dive into a space-time riddle that's going to turn your world upside down?