Any news on PS2 backwards compatibilty

[Shifty Geezer]

Just a manufacturing defect in the lithography with expectations of 1 SPE not being formed right that makes it un-usable, leading Sony to just use Cells using 7 SPEs since they possibly expect one to not work?

Yes! That's exactly it. They couldn't rely on early yields to produce enough full 1:8 Cells, so decided to allow 1:7 Cells where one SPE is defunct due to manufacturing fault. This redundancy greatly increased usable yields for the platform. In the early days, the 1:8 Cells could be selected (binned) for IBM servers etc. and sold at a premium.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

I understand the whole old 7 SPE Cell vs. 8 SPE Cell issue, I'm just trying to get down to whether or not using the 8th SPE in the first Cells was possible. How is it dead? Just a manufacturing defect in the lithography with expectations of 1 SPE not being formed right that makes it un-usable, leading Sony to just use Cells using 7 SPEs since they possibly expect one to not work?

It was just a cost cutting measure. I don't know what sort of yields they had in the beginning for the Cell chip, but certainly they were higher when they allowed one spu to be broken. I'm sure there are plenty of PS3s that really have the one spu broken, even with the new units.

 

[Mobius1aic]

I remember initially I took the redundancy thing as if they expected one of the SPEs to fail once it was already in use combined with the other PS3 components and in a users hands, and if one of the SPEs died, automatically the redundant SPE was put into use as a back up.

I wasn't aware of the lithographic chip making progress until about a few months ago. Until then I had always been boggled on how they got all those little transistors on such a tiny space. The process makes me think of diamonds, as it's very complicated, and one small fault in the forming process can make potentially very expensive product useless, speaking of which, is 46 nm Cell production even underway yet, or is that possibly being saved for a slim PS3? Considering Sony has those new NW series laptops with Blu-Ray drives for under $900 at certain sites/locations, it's possible Sony might be just about in line for making a slim PS3 as the BR DVD tech is obviously getting cheaper (as well as the other laptop parts, the NWs only have Core 2 Duo T6500s which = meh), so cheap to produce BR DVD hardware + finalized 45 nm Cell and RSX could mean a slim PS3 soon........ And those drivesr are BD-ROM x4 capable of which the current PS3 lot is all x3 speed. Not to sure about the dual layer read speed though. Also are there any numbers/percentages on defective : non-defective single SPE early yields, which I assume are the 90 nm chips? That would be interesting information.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Do you not visit the rest of the board at all?
On the front page of the Console forum : Rumor: Slim PS3 on the way?

 

[Mobius1aic]

Do you not visit the rest of the board at all?
On the front page of the Console forum : Rumor: Slim PS3 on the way?

I remember seeing it, but I had heard it was a big prank.......so I pretty much forgot about it.

 

[DJ12]

While I don't think it's true, I don't follow your logic.

It's not in Sonys best interests to have PS3s on the market that are more powerful than what they started with.

 

[JPT]

Not sure how revealing this is but

http://www.pcworld.com/article/167966/sonys_eric_lempel_on_ps3_updates_firmware_rumors.html

GO: What about PlayStation 2 backward compatibility, the oft, beaten, and flogged question. Is it possible to offer a software downloadable, flash-updatable solution to existing PS3 owners?

EL: It's something I couldn't answer right now without talking to some of the engineers.

 

[Phil]

I have to say, a future PS3 without PS2 backwards compatibility seriously limits its appeal to me. I might not be using it much now, but I sure intend to go back to a few games sooner or later...

 

[gongo]

I wont put much hope in BC if you guys noticed since the new team took over running of SCE, the division has been moving away from those nice but unprofitable (if for not a better word) tech "perks".

 

[goonergaz]

I wont put much hope in BC if you guys noticed since the new team took over running of SCE, the division has been moving away from those nice but unprofitable (if for not a better word) tech "perks".

depends how the BC is implemented - if it's to get PS2 DLC working then it's profitable...imagine sales of the top PS2 classics, hell I'd buy a few titles myself to stick on the HDD...begining with Ico, SotC and the MGS games.

 

[Heinrich4]

depends how the BC is implemented - if it's to get PS2 DLC working then it's profitable...imagine sales of the top PS2 classics, hell I'd buy a few titles myself to stick on the HDD...begining with Ico, SotC and the MGS games.

Agreed and we could remenber recently a high FFVII sales in PSN(300000+).Ps2 titles could reach even more sales overall.

 

[goonergaz]

Indeed, they don't want to make PS3 BC as such...they want to make PS2 software run on the PS3...kerching!

 

[Iron Tiger]

Agreed and we could remenber recently a high FFVII sales in PSN(300000+).Ps2 titles could reach even more sales overall.

It's not really that simple. You can still buy a PS2 and games for it. And part of the appeal of PS1 games on PSN is that you can play them on both the PS3 and the PSP. It's highly unlikely that you'll be able to play downloadable PS2 games on a PSP.

 

[2real4tv]

Someone posted this on GAF..possible GS emulation enroute:

http://http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=16952451&postcount=4262


PS: Don't know the validity of the article

 

[Crossbar]

Someone posted this on GAF..possible GS emulation enroute:

http://http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=16952451&postcount=4262


PS: Don't know the validity of the article

Looks pretty valid to me.

Yet again it seems to use a fully 8 working SPUs version of Cell.

All the SPU id numbers in the picture above maps to different block ids in this picture.

 

[assurdum]

Oh my God They did it? I can't believe... wait a moment, but the 8th spe it wasn't unable?

 

[patsu]

What does 1110G do ? That SPU is being itself ?

Do the new units have all 8 working SPUs now ?

EDIT:
More questions, is it general PS2 emulation or game specific ?

If they are going after PSN distribution, they may focus on a subset of PS2 library only. If it's to offer user backward compatibility, then they'd need to emulate as 100% as possible.

EDIT 2:
Titanio already went through it quickly on GAF: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=16952757&postcount=4286

This is the machine translation of the description of the above diagram:

SPE1110A IPU118
SPE1110B Emotion Engine CPU102 and vector unit 0
SPE1110C VIF0, VIF1, GIF110
SPE1110D vector unit 1
SPE1110E GS200 (that is, partial;SPE1110G [ peculiar to PS2 ] takes an interface with the emulation side graphics controller (not shown) again about the graphics operation which is not peculiar to PS2 among operations of GS200)
SPE1110F Although not generally used, in order to reduce the load of one thread of above-mentioned PPE1150, a code can be recompiled and the vector unit 1 can be emulated.
SPE1110G SPU300
SPE1110H IOP700 and SIF122

It's pretty much entirely concerned with EE emulation on Cell. There's no talk about how they'd emulate GS. The SPE1110E GS200 bit is just relating to an interface from CPU to a graphics chip, but not emulation of the graphics chip itself, I think.

 

[patsu]

I was just joking.

From Titanio's quick look, it seems that the patent assumes a functioning GS on the motherboard. It's not unlike the current state of affairs.

EDIT: Answering my own question, I think SPU means Sound Processing Unit on the PS2.

 

[assurdum]

I was just joking.

From Titanio's quick look, it seems that the patent assumes a functioning GS on the motherboard. It's not unlike the current state of affairs.

EDIT: Answering my own question, I think SPU means Sound Processing Unit on the PS2.

Are you sure? The original source in japanese mention the gs also in the spu.

 

[AlNom]

Are you sure? The original source in japanese mention the gs also in the spu.

The Sound Processor Unit (SPU) 300 is effectively the soundcard of the system

http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/7084927/description.html

A good case for their using "SPE" to denote the ones in Cell.