Anand talk R580

Discussion in 'Architecture and Products' started by Unknown Soldier, Oct 20, 2005.

  1. Matasar

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2005
    Messages:
    65
    Likes Received:
    1
    G72 is nvidias next card ? what will it be ? 90nm G70 ?
    When is G80 expected and is there any info at all about it ?
    G80 and R600 is the "vista" chips ?
    Assume R580 will use GDDR4 so it cant be launched soon, cuz if they do they have to stick GDDR3 on it and people might be upset when 2 month later same card comes with GDDR4.
     
  2. Jawed

    Legend

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    Messages:
    10,873
    Likes Received:
    767
    Location:
    London
    I think the argument that R580, with the same memory and core clocks as R520, wouldn't be dramatically faster than R520, is the crux.

    First you have to find games with the heavy duty shaders that are going to use that extra ALU power.

    All the evidence we have so far is that R520's texturing, rendering, render-target blending and AA are bringing performance improvements of 10-50% more than an equally clocked X800XT. The performance of all of these isn't going to change in R580, I expect, because they're based upon improvements in texture caching and the memory interface/ring bus.

    Texturing may get more efficient, I suppose, because with 3 shader quads sharing a texturing quad the texturing quad's idle time may fall to nearly zero. Depends, really, on the scheduler. Maybe the texturing quads in R520 already have near-zero idle time for the same shader code. I wish we knew more about this...

    The lack of the new memory controller in RV515 makes comparisons between RV515 and RV530 pretty awkward - and therefore hard to use as a basis for guesstimating R580 on the basis of R520. And the double-Z ROP capability in RV530 further blurs things. But, I hope Dave's going to do an analysis of RV515 v RV530 at some point, anyway...

    Jawed
     
  3. CJ

    CJ
    Regular

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2004
    Messages:
    816
    Likes Received:
    40
    Location:
    MSI Europe HQ
    Afaik R590 is optional.
     
  4. Dave Baumann

    Dave Baumann Gamerscore Wh...
    Moderator Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2002
    Messages:
    14,081
    Likes Received:
    651
    Location:
    O Canada!
    I think there is a greater chance of R580 + GDDR3 and then the refresh being R580 with GDDR4.
     
  5. Subtlesnake

    Regular

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2005
    Messages:
    270
    Likes Received:
    3
    Could you come to a rough idea of the performance of the R580, by quadrupling the performance figures for the R530?
     
  6. Joe DeFuria

    Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2002
    Messages:
    5,994
    Likes Received:
    70
    That would indicate to me then that ATI have some confidence now in being able to ultimately get some very good clocks out of 580.

    It'll be interesting to see what the first R580 is clocked at....
     
  7. Ailuros

    Ailuros Epsilon plus three
    Legend Subscriber

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    9,429
    Likes Received:
    181
    Location:
    Chania
    How long before have IHVs prototypes "in house and working" until they reach production-ready silicon? Since when exactly were R520, RV530, RV515 also "in house and working". The second devil's advocate would tell you that major ISVs had pre-production prototypes of R520 from as early as Spring 2004. How long before that did ATI have samples "in house"?
     
  8. Ailuros

    Ailuros Epsilon plus three
    Legend Subscriber

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    9,429
    Likes Received:
    181
    Location:
    Chania
    Or that it'll end up more bandwidth limited in it's first incarnation then they would have expected. Memory availability is kind of a gamble when you're forecasting IMHLO at least.
     
  9. Pete

    Pete Moderate Nuisance
    Moderator Legend Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    5,034
    Likes Received:
    470
    You mean tripling (3x the shader units and assuming similar clocks), and then only in synthetic tests, maybe. Future, even more shader-oriented games and benchmarks should tilt in its favor.

    The consensus seems to be that current games aren't shader-limited enough for the extra shader power to be of much immediate use. RV530/X1600 is an example of that. It's got gobs of theoretical shader power (almost twice as much as a 6800, AFAIK), but more mundane aspects (TMUs, mainly, AFAIK) are holding it back. It'll probably shine with shader-oriented UE3-gen titles.
     
  10. PatrickL

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2003
    Messages:
    1,315
    Likes Received:
    13
    He was talking about RV530 not R520 :wink:
     
    #50 PatrickL, Oct 28, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 28, 2005
  11. KimB

    Legend

    Joined:
    May 28, 2002
    Messages:
    12,928
    Likes Received:
    230
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    They can't really be compared directly, because the usage statistics of the pipelines are so wildly different.
     
  12. Unknown Soldier

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2002
    Messages:
    2,238
    Likes Received:
    33
    #52 Unknown Soldier, Oct 28, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 28, 2005
  13. Unknown Soldier

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2002
    Messages:
    2,238
    Likes Received:
    33
    http://print.pcvsconsole.com/?news=3074

    http://www.vnunet.com/vnunet/news/2143948/samsung-claims-dram
    http://www.techworld.com/storage/news/index.cfm?NewsID=4574&inkc=0
     
    #53 Unknown Soldier, Oct 28, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 28, 2005
  14. KimB

    Legend

    Joined:
    May 28, 2002
    Messages:
    12,928
    Likes Received:
    230
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    Yeah, sure, if any vendor decides to ship their products with a liquid nitrogen cooling solution.
     
  15. Unknown Soldier

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2002
    Messages:
    2,238
    Likes Received:
    33
  16. stepz

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2003
    Messages:
    66
    Likes Received:
    3
    Interesting idea.To get reasonable results available bandwidth should be scaled back aswell. Does the RV530 have 2 z-units capable of operating on two z-pixels at a time (like NVidias architecture) vs. R520 with 2 z-units operating on 1 pixel? If so then atleast 2xMSAA should be used to make the results more useful.
     
  17. Tim

    Tim
    Regular

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2003
    Messages:
    875
    Likes Received:
    5
    Location:
    Denmark
    ISV did not have R5xx prototypes in 2004 at all, actually Ati was not able to ship working samples before the soft ground issue was fixed - pre-fix chips was simply to flaky.

    From the day where they decide to start volume production to the day they are actually ready to ship, it is about three months. It is very hard to say how long it takes from a “working” prototype until release, if they need a another silicon respin it could take close to six months before they are able to actually ship in volume, but a new metal layer steppings might have very little impact on the time table.
     
  18. PatrickL

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2003
    Messages:
    1,315
    Likes Received:
    13
    I was thinking about that and time frame. If there is a 580 +GDDR3 then a refresh with GDDR4, when do you think that refresh is scheduled?

    For now it seems that cards with the R580 will not be out before end of Q1 and I was under the impression that R600 was scheduled for Q4 2006. So there is little room for the GDDR4 refresh no ? Unless one of theses chips is coming out as the top end card without replacing a previous card ?
     
  19. BRiT

    BRiT Verified (╯°□°)╯
    Moderator Legend Alpha

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    14,224
    Likes Received:
    11,796
    Location:
    Cleveland

    I think what Dave meant was there's two possible situations for the refresh part. Situation A is R580+GDDR3. Situation B is R580+GDDR4. He indicated Situation A is more likely than Situation B.
     
  20. KimB

    Legend

    Joined:
    May 28, 2002
    Messages:
    12,928
    Likes Received:
    230
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    Considering situation B would be set for late next year, yeah, I'd say situation A is a bit more likely.
     
Loading...

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Beyond3D has been around for over a decade and prides itself on being the best place on the web for in-depth, technically-driven discussion and analysis of 3D graphics hardware. If you love pixels and transistors, you've come to the right place!

    Beyond3D is proudly published by GPU Tools Ltd.
Loading...