AMD: Navi Speculation, Rumours and Discussion [2019-2020]

[Deleted member 13524]

A higher end chip already, without nearly as much fanfare as they put in for the midrange one? I can see a half a Navi 10 getting released, an RX580 equivalent for cheap before christmas, and it wouldn't need a "big press buildup!" But a higher end one right now seems odd.

Yes. AFAIK all that 3dcenter used for Navi 12 being "big" is the fact that it has the same value for "info->num_sdp_interfaces" as Navi 10, which is not that much to go on IMO.

In the meanwhile, wccftech claims to have info on the RX5500M and RX5300M:

https://wccftech.com/exclusive-amd-...-to-take-out-nvidias-mid-end-mobility-lineup/

And here are the specs for the RX5500M:

So at least in the mobile market it seems to be competing with the GTX1650 in price (which is going into ~800€/$ laptops at the moment), while performing around 30% faster.

 

[Picao84]

All they say is competing with the RTX 2080 Super. Doesn't the RX5700 compete with the RTX2070 non Super already? It wouldn't be a stretch to have a slightly larger chip with just a few more CUs and it would allow AMD to keep competing in this generation. The way things are going, with Trump's commercial war and what not, it will take a while for the next generation from either company to kick in.

 

[w0lfram]

All they say is competing with the RTX 2080 Super. Doesn't the RX5700 compete with the RTX2070 non Super already? It wouldn't be a stretch to have a slightly larger chip with just a few more CUs and it would allow AMD to keep competing in this generation. The way things are going, with Trump's commercial war and what not, it will take a while for the next generation from either company to kick in.

Nvidia no longer makes the RTX2070. And AMD's 5700xt is about 90% the performance of a 2070Super OC for $100 less.

So you are correct, that a slightly bigger Navi chip will easily equal the performance of the 2080, etc. The question is, when AMD releases the 5800 series for $499, will Nvidia be able to drop the prices on the 2080 super..? If not, then AMD has a major win on it's hands.

BTW, blaming Trump for past Policies (by past Politicians), isn't a legit complaint. Prices will calm down once things are established.

 

[Frenetic Pony]

Those benchmarks seem to line up with a 24CU GPU.

A bigger Navi GPU could use the new 6 DCU per block design and bring it back up to Navi 10s 4 blocks (48 CUs vs 40). A 20% boost in 4k output would put in 2070 Super/2080 range. Charge $500 for it, it wouldn't be that big of a boost and so need a bit less fanfare than the teases/pre-announcement stuff Navi itself got.

 

[Picao84]

BTW, blaming Trump for past Policies (by past Politicians), isn't a legit complaint. Prices will calm down once things are established.

Wut? Wake up, Trump has been in the office for three years and he started a commercial war with China, where most of hardware components are manufactured, no one else? I stated a fact, not an accusation.

 

[Leovinus]

Considering the limited production slots at TSMC, could the 5300 be the planned result of a heavily binned 5700? Perhaps they have enough inventory to supply this low end segment at this point without leeching off of more valuable 5700 dedicated production?

 

[Kaotik]

Wut? Wake up, Trump has been in the office for three years and he started a commercial war with China, where most of hardware components are manufactured, no one else? I stated a fact, not an accusation.

You mean the computer hardware that just got to the exception list on those tariffs?

Considering the limited production slots at TSMC, could the 5300 be the planned result of a heavily binned 5700? Perhaps they have enough inventory to supply this low end segment at this point without leeching off of more valuable 5700 dedicated production?

Certainly not, heavily binned 5500 (assumed to be Navi14) could happen though.

 

[Picao84]

You mean the computer hardware that just got to the exception list on those tariffs?

Regardless, it creates uncertainty and unpredictability in the market, as they might be put back in just as fast if negotiations don't go according to plan. Plus, exemption is only until August 2020, not permanent. You cannot possibly compare the current trade climate with China with the last 10 years or more.

 

[BRiT]

Probably best to move RSPC Tarrif talks to here: https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/the-us-war-on-game-consoles.61221/

 

[Leovinus]

Certainly not, heavily binned 5500 (assumed to be Navi14) could happen though.

Ah, that would make much more sense. I've just not heard a lot with regards to the 5500. Maybe it just hasn't leaked yet to the extent the 5300 has. What do we know/suspect about it so far? Halved 5700?

I seriously hope that TSMC can produce enough of everything considering the Apple, AMD, and others eating up production slots. Equally I hope the product is good enough that demand makes it difficult for TSMC to fill it. Just because that would be symbolically very satisfying to me personally hehe.

 

[Kaotik]

Ah, that would make much more sense. I've just not heard a lot with regards to the 5500. Maybe it just hasn't leaked yet to the extent the 5300 has. What do we know/suspect about it so far? Halved 5700?

12 Dual Compute Units / 24 Compute Units and GDDR6 are pretty much confirmed at this point I think

 

[Leovinus]

Didn't have to wait for more info to pop up. I know the source isn't the best, but it's funny how things pop up when you think about them.

VideoCardz just posted about a possible release being 7th October.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

12 Dual Compute Units / 24 Compute Units and GDDR6 are pretty much confirmed at this point I think

For the RX5500?
So the RX5500 is:

- 12 DCU @ >=1.7GHz, ~5.5 TFLOPs
- 128bit GDDR6 @ 1.4GT/s, 224GB/s
- 8 GB VRAM

So this should be Polaris 30 performance (RX580~RX590), but at ~120W.


Honestly it seems the mobile version should be more interesting. However, I never thought the Navi 10 cards would be so popular so these could turn out a surprise success too.

Wut? Wake up, Trump has been in the office for three years and he started a commercial war with China, where most of hardware components are manufactured, no one else? I stated a fact, not an accusation.

What hardware components are manufactured in China? You certainly don't mean the chips from Taiwan Semiconductor which has only two smaller foundries in mainland China from a total of 33, right?
Voltage regulator ICs and high-end capacitors are also made in Japan and Taiwan AFAIK.
China is strong on cheap labor for assembly, not foundries.

Regardless, it creates uncertainty and unpredictability in the market, as they might be put back in just as fast if negotiations don't go according to plan. Plus, exemption is only until August 2020, not permanent. You cannot possibly compare the current trade climate with China with the last 10 years or more.

Price-per-performance fluctuations were influenced by all the consecutive cryptomining booms and crashes.

The tariffs you mention:
1 - were never implemented;
2 - have been put in an exception list for at least another year like @Kaotik said
3 - would not even affect most graphics card brands, which are actually from Taiwan and could quicly relocate assembly lines of products headed to the US from mainland China to somewhere else, and sell the ones assembled in China to the asian and european markets. Taiwan is where all the major brands are from (Asus, MSI, Gigabyte, Palit, etc.). Sapphire is from Hong Kong. I don't know of a single graphics card OEM from mainland China that ship to other countries.

So enough shoehorning of US politics outside of RPSC please.

 

[Picao84]

For the RX5500?
So the RX5500 is:

- 12 DCU @ >=1.7GHz, ~5.5 TFLOPs
- 128bit GDDR6 @ 1.4GT/s, 224GB/s
- 8 GB VRAM

So this should be Polaris 30 performance (RX580~RX590), but at ~120W.


Honestly it seems the mobile version should be more interesting. However, I never thought the Navi 10 cards would be so popular so these could turn out a surprise success too.




What hardware components are manufactured in China? You certainly don't mean the chips from Taiwan Semiconductor which has only two smaller foundries in mainland China from a total of 33, right?
Voltage regulator ICs and high-end capacitors are also made in Japan and Taiwan AFAIK.
China is strong on cheap labor for assembly, not foundries.




Price-per-performance fluctuations were influenced by all the consecutive cryptomining booms and crashes.

The tariffs you mention:
1 - were never implemented;
2 - have been put in an exception list for at least another year like @Kaotik said
3 - would not even affect most graphics card brands, which are actually from Taiwan and could quicly relocate assembly lines of products headed to the US from mainland China to somewhere else, and sell the ones assembled in China to the asian and european markets. Taiwan is where all the major brands are from (Asus, MSI, Gigabyte, Palit, etc.). Sapphire is from Hong Kong. I don't know of a single graphics card OEM from mainland China that ship to other countries.

So enough shoehorning of US politics outside of RPSC please.

Show me where did I mention prices anywhere? I never did. My point was always macroeconomic, not micro. That's why I mentioned "trade climate", unpredictability, instability. I probably could have phrased it better, but there are plenty of resources used in electronics that come from China, such as rare materials. It's naive and very narrow minded to think the electronics market (hell any market) is exempt from being impacted by this trade war, even if part of it is excluded from tariffs.

Plus I was not trying to shoehorn anything. It was just an observation that next generation graphics cards are most likely a while away with the current climate surely not helping. But of course these days you can't say anything that mildly puts dear leader in less than brilliant light, that you are imediatelly attacked like I was. Jeez.

 

[Kaotik]

For the RX5500?
So the RX5500 is:

- 12 DCU @ >=1.7GHz, ~5.5 TFLOPs
- 128bit GDDR6 @ 1.4GT/s, 224GB/s
- 8 GB VRAM

Rather for Navi 14 -chip itself, supposedly only 11 DCU's enabled in 5500

 

[Deleted member 13524]

AMD announces Radeon RX5500 and RX5500M with GDDR6:

https://www.anandtech.com/show/14949/amd-announces-radeon-rx-5500-series-for-desktop-and-mobile
https://videocardz.com/82162/amd-announces-radeon-rx-5500-series-with-gddr6-memory

For the moment, it's only for OEMs (desktop and mobile).

Navi 14 RX5500 OEM:
- 22 CUs / 88 TMUs / 32ROPs
- Game clock 1717MHz ~4.8TFLOPs
- 128bit 14Gbps GDDR6 4/8GB
- 150W 110W 150W TBP

Navi 14 RX5500M:
- 22 CUs / 88 TMUs / 32ROPs
- Game clock 1448MHz ~4 TFLOPs
- 128bit 14Gbps GDDR6 4GB
- 85W TBP



EDIT:
It seems AMD finally broke MSI's "awkwardness" with not using Intel, and they're jointly launching a new gaming laptop, the MSI Alpha 15:

Ryzen 7 3750H
Radeon 5500M
1080p 144Hz IPS Freesync panel

If this thing goes for under $1000, it might fly off the shelves.



As for the retail RX 5500, AMD says we should expect cards from all the major manufacturers being announced within the following weeks.
However, the reference card is a Mini-ITX model with an open-air cooler:

 

[Deleted member 13524]

From the press deck, it seems they're positioning the desktop RX5500 against the GTX 1650 that goes for ~160€/$:

Whereas the RX5500M is going against the GTX1650 Mobile:

Though we already know that nvidia will be announcing the GTX1650 Super as a reaction to the new GPUs.

 

[Kaotik]

Navi 14 RX5500 OEM:
- 22 CUs / 88 TMUs / 32ROPs
- Game clock 1717MHz ~4.8TFLOPs
- 128bit 14Gbps GDDR6 4/8GB
- 150W TDP

That's actually 110W TBP, no mention of TDP (which AMD has recently given for the GPU only rather than whole card).
Also AMD hasn't confirmed it's actually Navi 14, it's just assumed to be since it's Navi and fits the leaks pretty well.
(I'm guessing there will be 5500 XT when AIB cards come in later with all 12 DCU enabled)

 

[Deleted member 13524]

That's actually 110W TBP, no mention of TDP (which AMD has recently given for the GPU only rather than whole card).

You're right, I just copied anandtech's mistake.
I thought the 150W number was really high considering the much larger RX 5700 is 180W. That makes more sense.

 

[mczak]

That's actually 110W TBP, no mention of TDP (which AMD has recently given for the GPU only rather than whole card).

Actually AMD changed this to 150W on their website: https://www.amd.com/en/products/graphics/amd-radeon-rx-5500
I don't disagree though 110W would make a lot more sense...