Alternative distribution to optical disks : SSD, cards, and download*

Discussion in 'Console Technology' started by Cheezdoodles, May 26, 2008.

  1. eastmen

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    How about

    My blu-ray player is broken but I have rent due , car payment and grocery bills so I gotta wait on buying a new bluray player. 3-5 months down the line consumer picks up a new bluray player. now there is 3-5 months of loss sales .

    My ps3 bluray drive broke and I didn't buy games for almost 6 months and i only bought uncharted 2 cause i was able to install a custom firmware .

    its a very real posiblity esp as consumers these days have more and more outlets for gaming
     
  2. AlphaWolf

    AlphaWolf Specious Misanthrope
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    Consumers love it when they have to repair their own products and they always do so immediately regardless of cost. True or false?

    They already do. They care about these things because they matter. Flash was not a viable alternative when current consoles shipped, capacity was way too low. This is not necessarily true in 2013 or 2014.

    And assuming they decide to repair that device and not buy a competitors product the money is still coming out of their entertainment budget.
     
  3. -tkf-

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    Microsoft have the most unreliable console ever produced and it´s a hit, they have customers that have returned their consoles for repair for 10+ times (27 is the top?) they have customers that learned to live with that "soon my console will fail... again".

    Microsoft did the right thing... at last, but until then, you did not see their sales drop off, and they still make a succesfull console, with the history of the worst reliability story ever seen in the console world.

    I just don´t see how your argument can be considered important in this.
     
  4. -tkf-

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    I wil just rerun this:

    Microsoft have the most unreliable console ever produced and it´s a hit, they have customers that have returned their consoles for repair for 10+ times (27 is the top?) they have customers that learned to live with that "soon my console will fail... again".

    Microsoft did the right thing... at last, but until then, you did not see their sales drop off, and they still make a succesfull console, with the history of the worst reliability story ever seen in the console world.

    I just don´t see how your argument can be considered important in this.
     
  5. eastmen

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    Stop with your MS trolling. Sony produced the ps1 and ps2 both of which had amazingly high optical drive failure rates. Do you even remember video game history ? ps1 and ps2 both had disc reading problems and sony lost law suits against them and had to extend their warrentys and replace them.

    Perhaps you don't remember because the internet was not as big then as it was in 2005 but these were huge problems .
     
  6. -tkf-

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    Reaching much? See my Microsoft remarks.
     
  7. -tkf-

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    Good you bring them up, did it hurt Sonys software and hardware sales? I don´t think so, did Sony change media eventhough they had this history? Nope.
     
  8. AlphaWolf

    AlphaWolf Specious Misanthrope
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    MS is paying for those repairs, do you understand this? They set aside $1billion in addition to the expected repair budget to cover that cost. No one is talking about optical being a fucking barrier to adoption they are talking about the reality of its cost extending beyond the media production.
     
  9. -tkf-

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    You brought up the problem with consoles breaking down (it does not really matter what breaks, its still broken). I showed you a perfect example of a very breaking product that still produced lots of succes and where the consumers still supported it. And this was before Microsoft "found out" that they had a real problem and extended the warranty to 3 years on specific errors.

    I think you are overplaying this reliability card a bit.
     
  10. AlphaWolf

    AlphaWolf Specious Misanthrope
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    ....

    break down is a cost....

    do I need to draw a picture? Maybe with crayon?
     
  11. corduroygt

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    RROD wasn't due to DVD drives failing. Maybe MS shouldn't have put a GPU in the 360, it'd have prevented RROD and the $1 billion warranty cost. See how stupid that sounds? Optical drives won't fail more than other required parts in a console if they're designed properly.
     
    #951 corduroygt, Mar 2, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 2, 2011
  12. willardjuice

    willardjuice super willyjuice
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    Can't we all just hold hands and sing kumbaya together? Try to stay focused and avoid personal attacks...
     
  13. AlphaWolf

    AlphaWolf Specious Misanthrope
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    I guess every device with a moving part has always been designed improperly.
     
  14. tongue_of_colicab

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    I think it's fair to say that over time a disk drive has a higher chance of failure than chips.

    Anyway, that isn't the point. We can agree that flash will (always) be more expensive than a disc? Right. So I would be very interrested if somebody can come up with numbers on money that might be saved from not including a disk drive and the decreased costs in shipping, storing, producing etc.

    If we are just going to keep argue whenever flash might become cheap enough vs a disk we will never get anywhere. It's a matter a costs saved in other areas will make up for the more expensive flash.
     
  15. eastmen

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    It may not have affected sales but it certianly affected profits . Sony had a massive sucess with both platforms but they didn't with the ps3 .

    You can also look at the profits graph that someone posted a few days ago or last week that show how little money sony was making during those years .



    I believe you and someo f the other bluray supports said that these companys will go with whatever is cheaper and then each time we bring up something that affects the price of the product you guys close your eyes and put your hands on your ears and yell really loud.


    The fact is these are all things that raise the cost of optical formats over the cost of flash.


    You still have yet to explain to me what the true cost of flash is.

    We know that Optical has a higher failure rate and a higher upfront cost.

    We know the flash is more expensive per cart vs disc. But we also know that the price can be passed on to consumers.

    So where is flash more expensive than optical that will affect hte bottom line. It seems every where alone the life of a console flash is the cheaper product for the company and can save them billions over the cost of the geneartion.
     
  16. corduroygt

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    Not for free, you lose out more console sales, more software sales, and more royalties (around $8-10 per game) if your games are more expensive than the competition.
     
  17. eastmen

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    Well we can break down the steps.

    Flash console

    1) Card reader pricing. These cost very little in the range of $ at most

    2) Size of the console this affects

    a) Casing costs
    b) Shipping costs
    c) Packaging cost
    d) Retail stocking

    3) Power usage . We know flash uses much less power than optical and thus

    a) Smaller power brick / internal power supply
    b) smaller caseing in result of an internal power supply
    c) Retail stocking
    d) Packaging costs
    e) shipping costs


    Flash cart

    1) Cart can fit into smaller cases this affects

    a) Shipping costs
    b) packaging costs
    c) retailer stock

    2) The price of the cart can be raised to ofset the cost of production



    The question is what are the price benfits from these and then what are the secondary effects such as people buying the smaller console , people buying the console with faster load times , people buying the console where the kids will hae a hard time snaping the discs or ruining them.


    I personaly feel that with flash costing 50cents a GB an dropping it cna easily be absorbed by a $5 increase in game costs while the other savings will just be icing on the cake.

    A $30-$50 upfront cost reduction can go to being more competetive in the market or go towards more ram/ silicon for a faster more powerful console . Then you'd have all the othre savings.
     
  18. eastmen

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    Yet by choping off $30-$50 a console your able to get more consumers. Many consumers by few games a year and the extra $5 per game will not affect them if they get $50 savings up front. It would take them buying 10 games before the flash console becomes the same price as the optical and all the while they will be enjoying faster load times and perhaps better graphics .


    i'm sure if your someone who buys 15 games a year it might work out to be more expensive but if you buy 1 to 2 games a year like many casuals it will hardly matter in the end.

    You also forget that this generation we had a $10 price incrase in games. The 3DS is also increasing games by $5 .
     
  19. corduroygt

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    It'd be at least 10 bucks not 5, you're underestimating the costs of flash. If the PS3 had $60 games and 360 had $70 games, 360 would sell a lot fewer games. Price increase for a new generation is different, as you can see the visual differences. PS3 and 360 look pretty much the same.
     
  20. eastmen

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    It be $5 bucks . I already linked previously in this post showing 50cents a GB for 25nm flash memory. 50c x 8 = $4 and that be today not in 2012 or 2013 . Prices will shrink more
     
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