Alternative distribution to optical disks : SSD, cards, and download*

[MrFox]

You already have an XB1, and you said you don't care about it's huge size, nor it's non-stackable form, nor it's big ass external power supply. You also dismissed the idea of a replaceable internal hdd, with your preference for adding an external one.

Stop the theatrics.

 

[eastmen]

You already have an XB1, and you said you don't care about it's huge size, nor it's non-stackable form, nor it's big ass external power supply. You also dismissed the idea of a replaceable internal hdd, with your preference for adding an external one.

Stop the theatrics.

I only have 2 xbox ones , I have 8 xbox 360s still kicking around being used almost daily. So a cheaper xbox one with no bluray drive would be very nice.

Also a larger hardrive is also nice. I don't mind adding an external drive ,but with all things equal I rather get a faster larger drive in my system than an optical drive.

 

[MrFox]

Switching back to price being the issue. Okay.

 

[eastmen]

Switching back to price being the issue. Okay.

remove a $30-$40 part of a console and you get a nice price drop on the hardware.

DD titles I can play on any system with my account and I don't need a disc. So of course price matters

 

[Lalaland]

Preload only works for preorders, if you choose to wait to see if a game is actually good before you plonk down your cash you want progressive install. There were more than few folks complaining about XBL d/l speeds around the launch for Halo 5 as could be expected in a high demand situation. Most of these same folks had a decent experience prior to H5 and probably will after but poor perf under load is the clouds equivalent of an empty shelf.

 

[MrFox]

remove a $30-$40 part of a console and you get a nice price drop on the hardware.

DD titles I can play on any system with my account and I don't need a disc. So of course price matters

That is more about convenience than price.

And you need an HDD on sufficient capacity on each of you 10 consoles for all your games. You also need to download each 45GB game 10 times. Can you preload a game on 10 consoles overnight? Disc however requires little space since the first load from disc is 30 seconds, you delete the cache when you don't play it often.

If enough gamers want to save $30 in exchange for the loss of anything discs offer, there would be a market for an XB1-Go. Sony tried with the PSP-Go, but they were too early. If a second sku was viable, MS would have had one at launch. Can you explain why they still don't have one? Neither MS, nor Sony, nor Nintendo took that chance yet.

You cannot resell the games you don't play anymore or didn't like. I saved over $100 on my WiiU by bringing back some old PS3, Wii games. That is price. But everyone seem to have the liberty to do whatever they want, as we have both dd and disc. It's not like anyone is suggesting a console without DD.

 

[eastmen]

That is more about convenience than price.

And you need an HDD on sufficient capacity on each of you 10 consoles for all your games. You also need to download each 45GB game 10 times. Can you preload a game on 10 consoles overnight? Disc however requires little space since the first load from disc is 30 seconds, you delete the cache when you don't play it often.

Why would I need to download it 10 time ? MS already has software in windows 10 that lets me download the patches to one pc and then load them onto others through my network. Tivos do this with recorded video also , you can send a tv show from one TiVo to another.

If enough gamers want to save $30 in exchange for the loss of anything discs offer, there would be a market for an XB1-Go. Sony tried with the PSP-Go, but they were too early. If a second sku was viable, MS would have had one at launch. Can you explain why they still don't have one? Neither MS, nor Sony, nor Nintendo took that chance yet.

Any progressive moves by MS is met with a back lash , remember 2015 ?

You cannot resell the games you don't play anymore or didn't like. I saved over $100 on my WiiU by bringing back some old PS3, Wii games. That is price. But everyone seem to have the liberty to do whatever they want, as we have both dd and disc. It's not like anyone is suggesting a console without DD.

I rather a pure DD console. On the pc side I haven't been able to sell back a pc game since the mid 90s. IT hasn't effected the market.

The majority of titles don't hold value anyway and places like gamestop really screw the customers. $15 or $20 for a new game a few weeks after launch that they then sell for $55 .

 

[MrFox]

But you are trying to save $30, it's like 2 games over the 6 to 8 years of a console generation.

 

[eastmen]

But you are trying to save $30, it's like 2 games over the 6 to 8 years of a console generation.

I'm trying to save money all the way through. At the start of the generation when consoles are most expensive all the way to year 8 when I buy games released in year 2 for $1 or year 5 for $5 all from the comfort of my couch.

The steam model works very well

 

[Lalaland]

The steam model works very well

You're ignoring the market effects that are unique to PC here that are not replicated in the console realm. The PC software market is open, I can buy keys from any vendor which means Steam has to stay competitive even if it is many times larger than it's rivals. Console markets are monopolies and in a world where all software is DD only it would be a perfect monopoly which is a market condition that has never offered long term benefits to the consumer.

 

[eastmen]

You're ignoring the market effects that are unique to PC here that are not replicated in the console realm. The PC software market is open, I can buy keys from any vendor which means Steam has to stay competitive even if it is many times larger than it's rivals. Console markets are monopolies and in a world where all software is DD only it would be a perfect monopoly which is a market condition that has never offered long term benefits to the consumer.

I disagree , There are 3 main players in the console sector. The hardware may lock you in to one of them but you can sell the system and buy a new one. Its a bit harder than moving into a new DD service but if you are a steam user and have 20 games on steam you will loose those 20 games if you go to uplay or origin.

 

[MrFox]

Consoles do not have widespread piracy.

 

[eastmen]

Consoles do not have widespread piracy.

Sure they do. This generation not yet , but the xbox 360 suffered its own amount of hacked consoles , sony had to remove features from the ps3 to prevent it . The xbox one had XMBC , the ps2 had pirated games , heck the dreamcast was easily pirated.

 

[MrFox]

Not widespread.

 

[eastmen]

Not widespread.

In dreamcast's it was wide spread. It was one of the cuases of the systems death.

With the xbox and xbox 360 it was also wide spread. I knew casuals who did it

in terms of handhelds my sister's father in law had a hack card for his 2ds and had a hacked psp.

Its going to be about as wide spread as pc piracy at this point. DD and its pricing scale had greatly reduced it.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

In dreamcast's it was wide spread...

MrFox is talking about modern machines. Nintendo DS being massively pirated doesn't indicate XB1 and PS4 are heavily pirated.

Its going to be about as wide spread as pc piracy at this point.

No. You can't copy a PS4 or XB1 game and run it on your console, and can't get a cracked copy. Maybe eventually someone will make a dongle, but that adds cost and complexity. On PC you can AFAIK get a cracked copy of any game. There are zero barriers save online DRM.

It's impossible for closed hardware with hardware anti-piracy measures to be as easy to pirate on as PC with none. PS3 was only hacked due to a rookie error. Publishers can trust the modern console user base to be a very piracy resistant (unless one of the console companies makes another design/implementation blunder).

 

[eastmen]

MrFox is talking about modern machines. Nintendo DS being massively pirated doesn't indicate XB1 and PS4 are heavily pirated.

No. You can't copy a PS4 or XB1 game and run it on your console, and can't get a cracked copy. Maybe eventually someone will make a dongle, but that adds cost and complexity. On PC you can AFAIK get a cracked copy of any game. There are zero barriers save online DRM.

It's impossible for closed hardware with hardware anti-piracy measures to be as easy to pirate on as PC with none. PS3 was only hacked due to a rookie error. Publishers can trust the modern console user base to be a very piracy resistant (unless one of the console companies makes another design/implementation blunder).

I'm just pointing out that Consoles have had a long history with pirated games. Its as recent as last gen with the xbox 360 and psp vita .

Ps4 and Xbox one haven't been hacked but that doesn't mean they wont and a lot of the popular games are still releasing on those older hacked systems and still selling well.

Piracy on the pc for video games is tiny compared to what it used to be and with newer drms happen now months after release when the majority of high priced sales are already done

 

[Lalaland]

I disagree , There are 3 main players in the console sector. The hardware may lock you in to one of them but you can sell the system and buy a new one. Its a bit harder than moving into a new DD service but if you are a steam user and have 20 games on steam you will loose those 20 games if you go to uplay or origin.

This is fallacious reasoning, hopping from one monopoly to another in the console is nothing like the same as having an open market as on PC. Consoles are closed, you can decide on your flavour of closed eco system but they are all monopolies and all have shown a desire to maintain higher software AUPs than open market forces have enabled on PC

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I'm just pointing out that Consoles have had a long history with pirated games.

PC has a longer and more pronounced history of pirated games.

Piracy on the pc for video games is tiny compared to what it used to be...

And on consoles its non-existent compared to what it used to be (which was never as much as PC).

 

[dobwal]

Preload only works for preorders, if you choose to wait to see if a game is actually good before you plonk down your cash you want progressive install. There were more than few folks complaining about XBL d/l speeds around the launch for Halo 5 as could be expected in a high demand situation. Most of these same folks had a decent experience prior to H5 and probably will after but poor perf under load is the clouds equivalent of an empty shelf.

Not really. An empty shelf doesn't require you to make a purchase before you notice that the shelves are bare. Its more calling in a take out order and getting to the location only to see that the parking lot is full to the brim and there are lines of car waiting to park. LOL.