Allard on HDD

[Carl B]

True, but a 1 gig hard drive at 2.5" would probably be just as expensive as a 20 gig drive - maybe even more expensive! - so no reason not to go with the larger.

 

[Korrupt]

Live doesn't require the HDD. A memory card can be used to store account information, and things like music can just be streamed or played off an ipod or whatever.

Downloadable content, sure, but realistically that's not going to be a big attraction to the mainstream consumer. Also, with microtransactions it's possible that a memory card will suffice for just downloading smaller stuff like individual cars for PGR3 or outfits for characters in DOA. The HDD is for the big stuff like full-blown expansions, map packs, and whatnot.

Really, the only reason to include a HDD at launch is so they can say "Our machine is backward compatible".

Good points. Its not necessary but appreciated by hardcore gamers, I really think it would be a mistake to not offer a HDD-included X360 for $300 at launch.

 

[Hardknock]

"Live doesn't require the HDD. A memory card can be used to store account information, and things like music can just be streamed or played off an ipod or whatever."

No, too complicated, expensive, and not user friendly enough.

To attract part-time gamers it must be easy and affordable. Content must be downloaded onto the machine without the need for extra peripherals, or shuffling through memory cards.

I don't see how you can believe that argument, just because Live CAN operate without a HDD< doesn't mean it can do so in a meaningful and effective way. Live depends on a HDD to be effective for anything more than multiplayer. And MS depends on Live to broaden their gaming demographic, which is, by the way, their publically stated goal for this generation.

p.s. if the HDD was solely for BC, then a 1GB HD would have done just fine. No need for 20. There goes that argument.

Ummm, Allard has stated himself that LIVE and games will NOT require a HDD. Why you are arguing otherwise is beyond me. It's obviously an avenue that they are considering for the future. If they had no intentions of doing so, they would say it.

 

[Carl B]

Good points. Its not necessary but appreciated by hardcore gamers, I really think it would be a mistake to not offer a HDD-included X360 for $300 at launch.

Well, the launch 360 definitely has an HDD - is that even an issue of discussion?

 

[scooby_dooby]

True, but a 1 gig hard drive at 2.5" would probably be just as expensive as a 20 gig drive - maybe even more expensive! - so no reason not to go with the larger.

Well here's a reason, 1GIG could be stored internally as flash memory removing the need for a HDD compeltely, and allowing MS to sell their HDD-Less SKU from the very beginning!

After all, it's not going to be used in any games, and is totally unnessesary for live right?

If MS listens to gamers lie ALlar has said, and like they have done so far with xbox 1, then the HDD will remain throughout the consoles life. Ask any xbox owner, they like their HDD!

btw - tatiano, I don't understand how you would rather the option of being able to buy the HD-less version for less money. What would you save $50 tops? Now you have to buy a memory card remember? YOu just traded a 20GIG HD for a 512 MG memory stick. Smooth move....

 

[Korrupt]

Well, the launch 360 definitely has an HDD - is that even an issue of discussion?

Lots of speculation has come up recently on the matter, I don't know what to believe. But yeah, it seems likely that all X360's will come with a HDD at launch. At this point that's all that matters to MS. Its not like they're strategy is plannined out completely for the next 5 years, MS is going to see how important the HDD is to the system from launch onward and make choises based on consumer demand and market realities (ie. Sony). The HDD being detatcheable just gives them more options for the future...I think its a bit early to speculate what their 2nd/3rd year system configurations are going to be, I bet MS doesn't even know yet.

 

[Titanio]

And when everyone was eating up that analyst nonsense recently of two launch versions, one with a hard drive, and one with a bigger hard drive? No no no - it's always been about giving themselves a means of cutting costs drastically later on in the 360's life, while at the same time creating an install base such that the hard drive is considered essentially a part of the system, likely boosting sales in it's eventual add-on form.

PS - One system at launch!

Heh, that's a rumour that won't die. 1up is now saying they "think" there'll be 2 SKUs at launch. They've an article up on - MS has confirmed they will announce pricing etc. on Aug 17.

 

[Korrupt]

Well here's a reason, 1GIG could be stored internally as flash memory removing the need for a HDD compeltely, and allowing MS to sell their HDD-Less SKU from the very beginning!

After all, it's not going to be used in any games, and is totally unnessesary for live right?

I don't think anyone is saying that. A HDD isn't mandatory for XBL play on X360, is it needed to get the most out of the service? Of course. But if a casual player wants to go online for Halo 3, just to play online, no demo downloads, no content downloads, or marketplace crap, a mem card would do.

 

[Hardknock]

Well here's a reason, 1GIG could be stored internally as flash memory removing the need for a HDD compeltely, and allowing MS to sell their HDD-Less SKU from the very beginning!

After all, it's not going to be used in any games, and is totally unnessesary for live right?

1GIG of flash would be far more expensive than a HDD.

 

[Confidence-Man]

"Live doesn't require the HDD. A memory card can be used to store account information, and things like music can just be streamed or played off an ipod or whatever."

No, too complicated, expensive, and not user friendly enough.

To attract part-time gamers it must be easy and affordable. Content must be downloaded onto the machine without the need for extra peripherals, or shuffling through memory cards.

I don't see how you can believe that argument, just because Live CAN operate without a HDD< doesn't mean it can do so in a meaningful and effective way. Live depends on a HDD to be effective for anything more than multiplayer. And MS depends on Live to broaden their gaming demographic, which is, by the way, their publically stated goal for this generation.

Err, I'd say it's more complicated and time consuming to rip tracks from CDs onto the HDD than just attatch an ipod (or any other device) and play music from there.

And what do you mean by Live operating in a "meaningful and effective way"? The only thing the HDD enables with regard to Live is large amounts of downloadable content.

And how is a memory card more expensive than a HDD?

p.s. if the HDD was solely for BC, then a 1GB HD would have done just fine. No need for 20. There goes that argument.

I didn't say the HDD was solely for BC, I said that's the reason they'll be including it standard (assuming they do), as they've already made the commitment. If BC was not an issue it would not be there; they would just sell the standalone unit and the HDD separately from the very beginning.

 

[Carl B]

Well here's a reason, 1GIG could be stored internally as flash memory removing the need for a HDD compeltely, and allowing MS to sell their HDD-Less SKU from the very beginning!

After all, it's not going to be used in any games, and is totally unnessesary for live right?

Hell I don't know, I'm really not trying to overthink things here. I would just say that since the most ardent XBox fans wanted a hard drive, that's what they're getting. Anything else and people may have felt 'burned,' not to mention it's their means to B/C.

All I'm saying is that for cost reasons, I could understand MS launching a less 'hardcore' version of the console down the line. There's a lot of functionality people such as ourselves can derive from these consoles that the average Joe will just really not bother with afterall.

 

[BlueTsunami]

If BC was not an issue it would not be there; they would just sell the standalone unit and the HDD separately from the very beginning.

Thats a good point, what Microsoft could have done with that is sell Live! subscriptions bundled with a HDD (like how FFXI was bundled with a HDD). But as Confidence-Man stated...BC is to work out of the box, so the HDD is absolutley needed. I also don't see how a HDD is absolutley essential for Live! service, besides the extra downloadable content...on the PS2, all network information was stored on your Memory Card (8MB ones...its 8MB right?), so the PS2's HDD wasn't needed for Online access.

 

[scooby_dooby]

I didn't say the HDD was solely for BC, I said that's the reason they'll be including it standard (assuming they do), as they've already made the commitment. If BC was not an issue it would not be there; they would just sell the standalone unit and the HDD separately from the very beginning.

And you back this up how?

BC is not an issue, not having a HDD would be a much, MUCH bigger issue among current xbox owners.

The problem with your theory is that BC is not an issue. Forums might make it an issue, but consumers don't care, and for the most part it doesn't affect anything. Not having a HDD however would be a huge issue for the entire XBOX 1 installed fanbase, and that is the reason they included the HDD. No other.

Ask any xbox owner, they love their HD, no one gives 2 craps about BC, the current 21 million xbox owners will spend $300 for next gen graphics and stats show that < 5% ever even use BC. only PS2 owners wanting to play a few AAA xbox titles will care.

Guys - please re-read my post on xbox live. I said for live to do anything anything OTHER than multiplayer a HDD is required. MS's goal for live is not "multiplayer" it's their mechanism to take all those casual gamers and get them using the 360.

You know those girls that play yahoo-games on the computer for 2 hours a day? The person who plays online poker 3 hours a week for play money? Or the guy that buys Forza, but then spends 6 hours in teh Decal editor instead of racing? These are the people MS is targeting. That means small downloadable games, online contests, trading/selling of user created skins/cars/t-shirts etc.

It's all these little things that is really MS's goal for live, so that's what I mean "function in a meaningful way" and I just don't see them removing the HDD to save a couple bucks, because it would act against overall goals.

 

[jvd]

Guys calm down . In the gamestop computers it has 300$ listed with the 20 gig hardrive xbox .

Its coming with the system .

 

[pso]

Guys calm down . In the gamestop computers it has 300$ listed with the 20 gig hardrive xbox .

Its coming with the system .

Yes!!! Thank you with the info.

 

[Confidence-Man]

And you back this up how?

BC is not an issue, not having a HDD would be a much, MUCH bigger issue among current xbox owners.

The problem with your theory is that BC is not an issue. Forums might make it an issue, but consumers don't care, and for the most part it doesn't affect anything. Not having a HDD however would be a huge issue for the entire XBOX 1 installed fanbase, and that is the reason they included the HDD. No other.

Ask any xbox owner, they love their HD, no one gives 2 craps about BC, the current 21 million xbox owners will spend $300 for next gen graphics and stats show that < 5% ever even use BC. only PS2 owners wanting to play a few AAA xbox titles will care.

Well, I'd disagree with that (I think MS would also disagree).

They had said a while ago that if BC was important to consumers they would make it work, and in the end they felt it was important, important enough to license Nvidia's technology for it.

Maybe it's not that big a deal to you or me, who already own Xboxes and are happier to have the HDD for mass storage than for BC, but for the more casual gamer, gamers who aren't Xbox owners (the consumers they hope to gain beyond their current fanbase), BC is an important point, especially with plenty of Xbox games still coming out.

 

[scooby_dooby]

Yes, it's important to people who do not currently own an xbox.

But who must MS be concerned with most? People who have never bought an xbox, or the 21 million people who did?

The HDD was included mainly because the current installed base demanded it, not for BC. And I'm pretty sure next-gen's installed base will love the HDD as much as xbox1 owners did, and so, it won't go anywhere.

 

[Carl B]

Guys calm down . In the gamestop computers it has 300$ listed with the 20 gig hardrive xbox .

Its coming with the system .

Psssh - and there you were before buying into all that analyst nonsense about two different launch consoles.

 

[function]

Why is this being made into a big issue?

Games can use the HDD. I'm sure that if the developer really wanted, they could make a game that *required* the HDD (for example in the case of MMORPGs), but that's a *choice* they would have to make if they really deemed it necessary, because somewhere down the line there may be Xboxes that *don't* come with HDDs as standard.

And most games really don't need a HDD even on Xbox, so why require it? Caching, huge numbers of save files and replays ... whatever, you can enable these options if a HDD is present, but you can make almost any game work without them. So why not do that.

I have Xbox Live. I've downloaded content for several games, ripped a few of my favourite albums for playback in game and never been forced to clear a save file from the device in the whole time I've had it. I wouldn't be suprised to find I've got less than a Gig of stuff saved on the box - and next generation I won't even need to have my soundtracks on the actual console (that'll be a *choice*). I'll opt for a HDD, whether it's a pack in or peripheral, but many, many users (probably most) would never see a real benefit over using memory cards.

What MS are doing is taking the only sensible course of action, OMG!!!ing console forumites (who represent an insignificant portion of the potential userbase) be damned. When, a few years from now, MS can afford to sell the device at $99 sans HDD without scrapping the thing it should finally be clear to everyone.

 

[jvd]

Its an issue only because the hardrive is a big advantage that the ps3 wont have (if its not packed in with the ps3)

Thus discusion on it not being included or not standard will be started from few words just to try and get it to look worse than it was .


At the store we got bnders for the stores which have the launch lists with the front of the boxes for the games , release dates and prices . We aren't allowed to put it all out at once (which is why they are binders) it has a ton of info on it that will most likely start coming out over sept