Advances in Artificial Intelligence for next generation, & advanced AIs in videogames

[DrJay24]

I played Oblivion intensively back in the day and I remember people having more tasks than in Skyrim, some more mundane than others, and some of them including things as simple as eating.

This is one of my favourite youtube videos ever since I watched it time ago, roleplaying at its best.

Here the guy disagrees with the politics of Chorrol (the guy is totally hilarious, but that's the kind of personality I usually like) and carefully plans an assassination (he previously had gotten rid of the queen's parents to make her suffer) which involves apple poisoning the AI (I think you can't poison food in Skyrim), at dinner time in the castle.

You can see the result in the video:

Why was the assassin allowed to just stand there and watch. No one was suspicious? Talk about AI!

 

[Cyan]

That same Autonomous agent AI playing two attempts at Supermario difficulty level 12

Really impressed at how he jumps on the projectile to avoid falling in the chasm -first video- and how he uses the falling turtle in the second video for the same purpose.

Why was the assassin allowed to just stand there and watch. No one was suspicious? Talk about AI!

The fact like he dresses like an assassin, has assassin's weapons in his arsenal like a dagger and a bow, doesn't mean he is an assassin.

I am worried about the future of the court in Leyawiin though, because when the person who eats the apple dies nobody reacts.

But that's one of those things that made Oblivion so special -for good and bad- and it is one of the best games I've ever played -along with Skyrim, Call of Juarez, Heroes of Might and Magic and Age of Mythology-.

Additionally, Oblivion had the best voice casting in the series, imho. (prefer Skyrim but still)

No comments needed:

"By the gods" "By the gods" "How did you do such a thing?" :smile:

 

[swaaye]

I played Oblivion intensively back in the day and I remember people having more tasks than in Skyrim, some more mundane than others, and some of them including things as simple as eating.

This is one of my favourite youtube videos ever since I watched it time ago, roleplaying at its best.

Here the guy disagrees with the politics of Chorrol (the guy is totally hilarious, but that's the kind of personality I usually like) and carefully plans an assassination (he previously had gotten rid of the queen's parents to make her suffer) which involves apple poisoning the AI (I think you can't poison food in Skyrim), at dinner time in the castle.

Oblivion was a little revolution in sandbox world AI. I really liked that about it. It is certainly imperfect and not exactly believable but I'm glad Bethesda tried to make it somewhat dynamic. So much unexpected stuff happens. I go back to it every now and then.

I definitely experimented with poisoned apples.

 

[benroveno]

I think Bioshock Infinite has great AIs there, compared to Splinter Cell Blacklist or even Last of Us. They are much smarter and more aggressive to kill us, just like the real human enemies.

 

[Lalaland]

BioshocK Infinite? The AI was no more sophisticated than any other FPS to my mind, what was it specifically that led you to think they were smarter? Basic mook AI was straight forward enough and the special enemies didn't impress that much either.

 

[Love_In_Rio]

Oblivion was a little revolution in sandbox world AI. I really liked that about it. It is certainly imperfect and not exactly believable but I'm glad Bethesda tried to make it somewhat dynamic. So much unexpected stuff happens. I go back to it every now and then.

I definitely experimented with poisoned apples.

Ultima VII already did that and more 20 years ago.

 

[swaaye]

Good point.

 

[Cyan]

Google have invented an AI that learns from itself when playing classic videogames.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...-able-to-teach-itself-how-to-play-retro-games

 

[TheWretched]

I've always wanted to program something like this... but... never had the time nor the expertise to do it :/

 

[Cyan]

Bots arrive in Friday the 13th! I started using bots when I didnt have internet, using the famous Reaper bot for the original Quake, and sometimes I prefer good AI vs human multiplayer, depending on the match or the game.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...-in-friday-the-13th-so-now-you-can-play-alone

 

[Esrever]

Bots and AIs in games aren't designed to be good at the game they are in. I have my doubts that any game will have "better" AI implemented. Simple games like Civ can have unbeatable AI rather easily because it's all about optimization and computers are really good at that but they never implement such AI. FPS AIs are designed to miss nowadays and not scan their vision 360 degrees every millisecond. The companion AIs in games are supposed to be dumb because the player needs to be the one who does things, if companion bots shot and killed everyone, nobody would feel any satisfaction of playing the game. I guess with better AI, they could make bots even dumber but still look like they are doing stuff.

NPCs in RPGs can be smarter but what does that get you? They don't really have any performance that can be measured, people don't actually want them to behave like real people. Even MMOs have NPCs because humans can't be the only interactions you have with characters in the game because everyone wants to do their own things. The NPCs are just there so stuff can be scripted to happen in that way.

The things that will happen will be better path finding and other subtle changes. Don't expect games to start putting AIs that are challenging because most people don't actually want to play against bots that always win.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

That depends largely on the game though. One v many, you can't have good AI as being outnumbered, you'd always lose. One v one/two, you could go with good AI for a challenge. I think 'living AI' is valuable too, to make open world games more believable. Ultimately, an extremely convincing human simulator would be the best sand-box world, as you could mess around influencing the AIs. Currently we just mess around with physics and have simple scripts respond with automated bipeds.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

That depends largely on the game though. One v many, you can't have good AI as being outnumbered, you'd always lose.

Not if the AI included the same flaws that people have - overconfidence, presumption, assumptions, basic errors in judgement. There is some cracking AI in existing games, Civilisation and Total War are examples to behold and wonder at, because all of the opponents are not out only to get the player but each other and you can manipulate (not cheese) the AI just as you would a human.

Getting that out of turn-based strategies is a little more complicated but equally, in a 3D environmentn, you're generally not crunching a billion numbers before making a move.

 

[BRiT]

Have the AIs be as flawed as humans, have a lot of them addicted to drugs or alcohol or gambling or food or porn or raised in the south or be heavy dreamers that will always do irrational actions that go against their own economic interests. Now that would make for a hell of a SimMurica game.

However, I think that would be extremely disturbing for the engineers who would have to develop such personas.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

You're talking about simulation with a few players, similar to a board game (one of the game types it works, where I said 'depends on the game'). I'm talking about mainstream action games like Uncharted or Destiny or Geometry Wars. You can't have human-like AI versus hundreds of opponents because the chances of success boils down to luck. See PUBG and games versus real human intelligences - Only the very leet, with loads of experience, can consistently come out on top. Everyone else dies. Fine in a game like PUBG where that adds to the appeal, but Uncharted would never progress beyond the first shoot-out when 20 militarily-trained combatants take on a single assailant.

 

[iroboto]

You're talking about simulation with a few players, similar to a board game (one of the game types it works, where I said 'depends on the game'). I'm talking about mainstream action games like Uncharted or Destiny or Geometry Wars. You can't have human-like AI versus hundreds of opponents because the chances of success boils down to luck. See PUBG and games versus real human intelligences - Only the very leet, with loads of experience, can consistently come out on top. Everyone else dies. Fine in a game like PUBG where that adds to the appeal, but Uncharted would never progress beyond the first shoot-out when 20 militarily-trained combatants take on a single assailant.

Ie. No really enjoyed playing Star Control 2 on the hardest difficulty. F the Sylandrome

 

[milk]

You're talking about simulation with a few players, similar to a board game (one of the game types it works, where I said 'depends on the game'). I'm talking about mainstream action games like Uncharted or Destiny or Geometry Wars. You can't have human-like AI versus hundreds of opponents because the chances of success boils down to luck. See PUBG and games versus real human intelligences - Only the very leet, with loads of experience, can consistently come out on top. Everyone else dies. Fine in a game like PUBG where that adds to the appeal, but Uncharted would never progress beyond the first shoot-out when 20 militarily-trained combatants take on a single assailant.

You guys are thinking about game AI as what makes the enemies behave strategically smart, but you can think about it in behaviors that make the game more engaging. Enemies that have different behavorial paterns, that are well comunicated to the player through animation, taunts, etc. Teams of enemies that dynamically react and adapt not necessarely to be more competent at killing the player, but to create more interestin gameplay scenarios.
Those are the challenges of AI for these types of games.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

You guys are thinking about game AI as what makes the enemies behave strategically smart, but you can think about it in behaviors that make the game more engaging. Enemies that have different behavorial paterns, that are well comunicated to the player through animation, taunts, etc. Teams of enemies that dynamically react and adapt not necessarely to be more competent at killing the player, but to create more interestin gameplay scenarios.
Those are the challenges of AI for these types of games.

This.

Whenever I compare Destiny 2 AI to Halo: Reach AI, I just can't believe the regression in enemy NPC AI.

They got stupider which in turn made the whole game significantly less fun.

I have to wonder how/why Bungie went downhill so fast after they left Microsoft (enemy AI). Destiny 2 doesn't hold a candle to Halo: Reach.

I still remember the great paper that they wrote up on their AI. How it wasn't about making the smartest AI (not fun) but making an AI that behaved believably while giving the player a challenge and still being fun.

The Bungie that wrote that paper and made those great games with great AI is no longer the Bungie that exists today, IMO. Somewhere along the line it appears they just stopped caring about providing a great AI that was fun to battle against.

Regards,
SB

 

[AlNom]

Maybe they had to make cutbacks due to how the networking evolved?

 

[Cyan]

You guys are thinking about game AI as what makes the enemies behave strategically smart, but you can think about it in behaviors that make the game more engaging. Enemies that have different behavorial paterns, that are well comunicated to the player through animation, taunts, etc. Teams of enemies that dynamically react and adapt not necessarely to be more competent at killing the player, but to create more interestin gameplay scenarios.
Those are the challenges of AI for these types of games.

Guess so. One of the earliest memories I have of AI is from Reaper bot in Quake. That was a great, great AI, for those who didnt have an internet connection like me at the time, and I thoroughly enjoyed it. However at higher difficulty levels it was totally inhuman, in the very sense of the word. Not only it was merciless as expected but they didnt miss a single shot! They were too good but not realistic, quite...Unreal .

The creator of the Reaper bot was later hired by Epic to work in the original Unreal and again I enjoyed the AI a lot! There was a particular map that I loved in the original Unreal which had a tower with an elevator and the tower was in the center of the map. I loved to go there and snipe the AI from there, I could spend hours there, the AI wasn't smart enough to take the elevator... and come up and kill me.