A SONY Patent: PS3 A Hybrid Tile Based Deferred Renderrer?

very interesting stuff Jaws. I remember the Talisman architecture a little..

as for Jason Watkins, I noticed he refers to PS3's GPU has 'GS2' or 'GS 2'.
while I understand why he might be calling it GS2, since it would be the second GS used in a Playstation, the GS2 was actually a different chip Sony had planned to make for workstations only. GS3 is of course, the official PS3 GPU, according to Sony. thats what they announced back in 1999. but as of 2003, the PS3 GPU is unofficially called the Visualizer since it is assumed the PS3 GPU is the Visualizer shown in the Sony patents.

btw I was unable to locate Jason's posts on Arstechnia. can you link me to it Jaws? thx!
 
Megadrive1988 said:
very interesting stuff Jaws. I remember the Talisman architecture a little..

as for Jason Watkins, I noticed he refers to PS3's GPU has 'GS2' or 'GS 2'.
while I understand why he might be calling it GS2, since it would be the second GS used in a Playstation, the GS2 was actually a different chip Sony had planned to make for workstations only. GS3 is of course, the official PS3 GPU, according to Sony. thats what they announced back in 1999. but as of 2003, the PS3 GPU is unofficially called the Visualizer since it is assumed the PS3 GPU is the Visualizer shown in the Sony patents.

btw I was unable to locate Jason's posts on Arstechnia. can you link me to it Jaws? thx!

Here's the thread on Ars... :p

BTW, the GS2 quotes come from versions diagram! :D
 
A cracking read (circa 1997) on what Talisman was, how it worked and what it meant to do for Microsoft and how the whole PC, Graphics and Gaming landscape changed from it's introduction to failure. Read the whole article, recommended! :cool:


Intel MMX vs. Microsoft Talisman
Abbott and Costello Do Multimedia


Francis Vale


"Those who maintain that improvements in CPU and VLSI technology are sufficient to produce low cost hardware or even software (image processing & graphics) systems that we would consider high performance today, have not carefully analyzed the nature of the fundamental forces at work"
-- Microsoft, speaking on its new Talisman multimedia architecture, from the 1996 SIGGRAPH Proceedings.


"Processors enabled with MMX technology will deliver enough< performance to execute compute-intensive communications and multimedia tasks with headroom left to run other tasks or applications. They allow software developers to design richer, more exciting applications for the PC".
-- From Intel Corp.'s MMX Chip Overview.


So Who is on first? What's on second? I Don't Know is on third? If the techno-marketing issues for the next generation PC multimedia processing systems weren't so vitally important, the above computer replay of Abbot & Costello's classic comedy routine would make for a great TV farce. Unfortunately, also at stake in this looming new battle between Microsoft and Intel are billions of your IS/IT dollars--Not too mention the squishing mayonnaise effect it will have on software developers sandwiched between these two warring PC titans. Also caught in the middle are all the consumer electronics companies as they gear up for the great digital TV wars.

But to see how these bases got so crazily loaded, let's go back to this game's very beginning. Your Intel 8088 PC began its life as a very crude graphics-capable computer. Absolutely nothing about it--from CPU to memory bus--was meant to act like a high performance imaging system. This Grand Canyon-sized marketing gap left the business door wide open for other vendors, like Silicon Graphics, Intergraph, and Apollo Computer, to create high performance 2D/3D imaging, and CAD systems. These specialized computers invariably did not use Intel CPU's, nor MS operating systems. But over time, graphics capabilities were slowly introduced to the PC; first by clever software hacks, then with specialized chips, and finally, add-on graphics accelerator cards appeared. Then came more user demands for supporting high quality PC video and audio, essentially fueled by the advent of CD-ROMs. And finally, we have the Internet multimedia extravaganza.

But the problem was, no matter how many next iteration PC CPUs Intel cranked out, from the 8086 to the 32 bit Pentium Pro, user demands for imaging and multimedia were always several steps ahead of what the PC's processor could deliver. But these needs were not so easily met, for greatly compounding Intel's problems were the huge issues of applications/operating system backwards compatibility. This PC-Gordion Knot effectively precluded Intel from just chucking the whole '86 architecture, and starting out with a clean sheet of paper. Multimedia processing is thus a very sore point for Intel. Worse, it is typically done best and cheapest by DSPs, Digital Signal Processors. With its back against the multimedia wall, Intel was subsequently pushed into making a strategic marketing blunder.

In the summer of 1995, Intel mistakenly strayed onto Microsoft's fiercely protected API turf...>>>Read More...

Talisman has a similar graphics architecture to the parallel, brick/tiling architecture in these Sony patents. Basically it failed because the two industry heavyweights Intel and MS collided with each other! The lessons learned here? Well STI was formed to work together on Cell and PS3, create a clean design and try to deliver by being in control of the vertical market..., the irony... :?:
 
Jaws said:
I linked this thread to ArsTechnica forums and got a couple of good posts from a developer (i think) called Jason Watkins who summarized the three patents posted on this thread nicely! Thanks Jason... :p
....


Second post,

Jason Watkins said:
quote:

Now that, quite clearly, is a tiled/deffered renderer very much in the style of PowerVR. But it goes one step further to sort and manage primatives by a bounding box heirarchy, which overcomes one of PowerVR's real limits (building a bsp of primatives per tile). It also appears to be able to store and compsite overlapping 'bricks'(tiles).
Shame that guy doesn't know what he's talking about. :rolleyes:
 
Simon F said:
Jaws said:
I linked this thread to ArsTechnica forums and got a couple of good posts from a developer (i think) called Jason Watkins who summarized the three patents posted on this thread nicely! Thanks Jason... :p
....


Second post,

Jason Watkins said:
quote:

Now that, quite clearly, is a tiled/deffered renderer very much in the style of PowerVR. But it goes one step further to sort and manage primatives by a bounding box heirarchy, which overcomes one of PowerVR's real limits (building a bsp of primatives per tile). It also appears to be able to store and compsite overlapping 'bricks'(tiles).
Shame that guy doesn't know what he's talking about. :rolleyes:

I'd cut Jason some slack! ;) He was the only one who read all three patents and came back with a summary in an afternoon! :oops: :p

I'm not an expert but what is wrong with the above then :?: :p
 
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