A SONY Patent: PS3 A Hybrid Tile Based Deferred Renderrer?

Discussion in 'Console Technology' started by j^aws, Jul 27, 2004.

  1. j^aws

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    Fig 1 from patent,

    [​IMG]

    Source: Image processor, components thereof, and rendering method

    For referrence,

    Previous Sony Patent, B3D thread on PS3 parralel/tile/brick renderring:

    EDIT:
    Apparently the B3D thread PS3 parralel/tile/brick renderring: has a broken link to the patent, so here's the direct link to the parralel/tile/brick rendering patent:

    and

    Previous Sony Patent, B3D thread on PS3 PixelEngine:

    Okay, I'm tired... :oops: But skimming through this patent, it suggests (but correct me if I'm wrong!) that the renderring processor is a hybrid deffered renderer utilizing a primitive buffer, a z-buffer, a stencil buffer and a frame buffer! 8) And referring to a previous patent suggesting parralel tile/brick renderring, the PS3 may well be a hybrid tile based deffered renderrer! :shock: 8) :D ....

    Also interesting to note is that fig1 shows three distinct processors, a CPU, a Geometry processor and a renderring processor! :shock: 8) :D ....

    Well, let me know what you guys find... :p
     
  2. version

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    this is PSP gpu, very old
     
  3. version

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  4. Farid

    Farid Artist formely known as Vysez
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    If this diagram was legit and true, it will be like a (Kutaragi Ken's) dream came true... (with exception made for the 400MHz difference in the BE.... Bring them back!! :lol: ).

    :D
     
  5. a688

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    why are there 2 256MB Rambus chips, but below them it says 1024MB? 2 * 256 != 1024
     
  6. overclocked

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    Could someone translate this diagrams and patent´s so a idiot can understand it. :lol: There been soooo much patent stuff about PS3 that´s it hard to get a overview of it.
     
  7. Farid

    Farid Artist formely known as Vysez
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    Actually that's not the only "problem" with this diagram. A lot of values are "strange"... :lol:
     
  8. jvd

    jvd
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    No expert but could those values just be the maximums.

    Like the most it can take is 1gig . But most likely they will be using two pools of 256 megs or less because of cost ?

    Much like the x800xt pe says 512megs in the docs but only uses 256 megs
     
  9. nAo

    nAo Nutella Nutellae
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    We already discussed this patent..I believe Pana posted about it some months ago.
    I don't think it is related to PS3..but hey.it's just a feeling
     
  10. Guden Oden

    Guden Oden Senior Member
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    Separate CPU and geometry processors... No, this is not PS3.

    And a big freakin :lol: to that diagram by the way - "wishful thinking" is probably the best way to describe it.

    Anyway, I'm surprised the GPU half of it is only clocked at 800MHz. :lol:
     
  11. nAo

    nAo Nutella Nutellae
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    :?:
     
  12. Guden Oden

    Guden Oden Senior Member
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    When the guy who made that pic was off in la-la land anyway, I thought he might as well clock the GPU at at least half CPU clock or some such, considering he gave the thing 100GB/s main memory bandwidth and 1GB RAM...

    Only 800MHz... That almost sounds...realistic! :lol:
     
  13. j^aws

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    Thanks...Okay, you seem pretty sure its the PSP GPU, why? Also if it is the PSP GPU, could the 'principles' of the primitive buffer be applied to the PS3 GPU?

    And that diagram, where did you pull that out from! :shock: Are you claiming it is legit or your interpretation? :D
     
  14. PC-Engine

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    Isn't PSP hardware based on id's D3 engine? :lol:
     
  15. j^aws

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    Version, thanks for the posts...seriously, I don't want to sound cynical or anything but certain aspects of that diagram just look out of place as pointed out by others...

    1. Memory of 1GB @ 100 GB/s...but there are 2* 256 MB blocks, huh? There are 4*32 bit channels to the RAM? People were estimating a total of 256 MB @ 50 GB/s with the recent announcements by RAMBUS...

    2. The GPU eDRAM is quad ported and that has already been mentioned in the brick rendering patent before. But is it at 1200 GB/s! :shock: ... 1.2 TERABYTES/Sec!!! :shock: Okay, second thoughts, PS2 eDRAM was 48 GB/s in 1999, so this is 'only' *25* more for 2005/2006?

    3. The GPU suggests 30 GPolys/s...30 BILLION Polys/sec! :shock: Surely you cannot be serious! :wink: PS2 GS was 75 Mpolys/sec, this is 400* more! Even if that poly figure was replaced by pixels for fillrate...that would still be a 'massive' figure. So what would be the fillrate for this *beast* then, 1 Trillion pixels/sec! :shock: :wink:

    4. The CPU at 3.6 GHz and GPU at 800 MHz seem reasonable by comparison! ;)
     
  16. Pepto-Bismol

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    Suppose that in one of your classes this fall, a term paper represents a huge chunk of your grade. Okay? Okay! Now let's fast forward to the last week of the semester. After putting a ton of energy into your paper, carefully choosing, researching and writing on a topic, would you be willing to let someone you don't even know plagiarize it for absolutely no credit or compensation? On the stranger's part, he or she has nothing to lose (and everything to gain). But as for you, such benevolence could not only compromise your grade in the class but your GPA as well ... :|

    Let's say STI have been working on a term paper of sorts and have invested countless hours -- and several billion dollars -- toward that end. How likely are they to reveal their findings to a general public teeming with potential competitors? :wink:
     
  17. j^aws

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    They will reveal initial specs to devs who are only human, well I use the term human *loosely*! :wink:

    Competitive companies will have they're own portfolio and intelligence of 'insider info' about their competitors, more so that the public domain...and they're not going to reveal that to the general public either. ! ;)

    Sony's competitors aren't going to change their specs because of an alleged 'leak' on some console forum! :p
     
  18. Megadrive1988

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    well, 30 billion polys does not sound so outrageous if this is a comparable figure to PS2's / GS's 75 million, which was announced back in 1999. if PS3 has a strong vertex compression shceme, it might be possible. of course, PS3 games will not get anywhere near 30 billion polygons. maybe 1-2 billion at most, without heavy shaders & textures. only light texturing shading and effects, and probably down into the hundreds of millions of polys with heavy shaders and effects
     
  19. j^aws

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    Megadrive, I would sincerely 'like' to believe those figures...Drooooool...*Drowns in Drool...*

    How about another take on the 30 GPolys/s, assuming 32 GFlops per APU @ 4 GHz,

    CPU @ 3.6 GHz, with 32 APUs >>> 28.8 GFlops/APU * 32 >>> = 922.6 Gflops

    GPU @ 0.8 Ghz, 16 APUs >>> 6.4 GFlops/ APU * 16 >>> = 102.4 Gflops

    CPU + GPU = 922.6 + 102.4 = 1024 Gflops ! Volia, your 1 Tflops PS3! :lol:

    The two 'strangest variables I see in that diagram are the '30 GPolys/s' and '1 GB RDRAM @ 100 GB/s'. Assuming the 30Gpoly/s figure could be the 'max' throughput with 1 GB RDRAM @ 100 GB/s, which I doubt. How about,

    30 Gpoly/s with 1024 MB @ 100 GB/s...or
    15 Gpoly/s with 512 MB @ 100 GB/s....or
    7.5 Gpoly/s with 256 MB @ 100 GB/s...or
    3.75 Gpoly/s with 256 MB @ 50 GB/s...>>> More likely! :p
    3.75 Gpoly/s with 128 MB @ 100 GB/s...>>> Possibility with 256 Mbits :)

    ...and 3.75 Gpoly/s, it's only 50* more than (PS2 @ 75 Mpoly/s)! :p

    Edit: XDR Ram, 256 Mbit @ 6.4 GHz * 4 (32bit) = 128 MB @ 100 GB/s :) ...Distinct possibility with recent Rambus announcements! :p


    I could see diehard PS3 nuts trying to 'overclock' the CPU to 4GHZ for that authentic 1TFLOP (TM) BE! :p
     
  20. j^aws

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    Apparently the B3D thread PS3 parralel/tile/brick renderring: has a broken link to the patent, so here's the direct link to the parralel/tile/brick rendering patent:

    ----------------

    I linked this thread to ArsTechnica forums and got a couple of good posts from a developer (i think) called Jason Watkins who summarized the three patents posted on this thread nicely! Thanks Jason... :p

    First post,


    Second post,

    So, on topic then, assuming the above renderring patents are going into PS3, we can call the PS3 a 'tiled based deffered renderer' to join the likes of DC before it then? :p

    Anyone also remember 'Talisman' :?: I vaguely remember reading about it in the 90s about revolutionizing 3D rendering using a tile based system really cheaply! :p

    Also the irregular rasterization sounds interesting, using an irregular z-buffer technique! :p I think the PS3 architecture would lend itself to it quite nicely! 8) What do you guys think :?:
     
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