A problem with PS3's 2 SKUs

[NANOTEC]

First off give me the source for the 80$ HDMI chip cost, and second having an additional video port means you have a dual video output capable chip , adding a dual video output capability is more expansive than just 50cent .

I'm sorry but you don't seem to understand what's being discussed here. I'll break it down for you.

1. SONY will be selling tens of millions of Core PS3s in the next few years.
2. Having HDCP chips in everyone of them will cost tens of millions of dollars
3. They will not be able to make up the loss through HDMI cables sales unless they sell tens of millions of cables at high prices.

 

[supervegeta]

I'm sorry but you don't seem to understand what's being discussed here. I'll break it down for you.

1. SONY will be selling tens of millions of Core PS3s in the next few years.
2. Having HDCP chips in everyone of them will cost tens of millions of dollars
3. They will not be able to make up the loss through HDMI cables sales unless they sell tens of millions of cables at high prices.

If you don't give me the source about the 80$ HDCP chip cost what you say make no sense.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

If Sony want to use PS3 to get BRD into people's homes, removing the ability to play HD movies on the format makes a mockery of that plan. I thought the idea was tech-ignorant consumers buy consoles and HD sets and find they can play HD movies, as it were. Now they have to make a conscious choice between getting an HD movie player or a cheaper console. Buying a machine totally equipped for HD movie playback, can take the BRD HD movie disks, but can't output the HD movie to their HD screen, is only likely to pee them off. Now they have to be educated to ignore the BlueRay disc qualities of PS3 on some models, rather than take it as standard.

I know one person looking to get HDTV next year and PS3 as a BRD player. Thankfully he knows enough to buy the pricier version. I can imagine quite a few confused customers seeing BRD on friend's PS3's, buying the cheap one themselves and not getting the HD output. On the low-end box will need a big bit of test 'Does not output HD BluRay movies!' which'll really make for pleasant packaging!

 

[nonamer]

It means "play at the resolutions that is the entire purpose of using a high-def video format in the first place."

That's one messed up definition of "play."

 

[Joe DeFuria]

That's one messed up definition of "play."

Really? How is blu-ray a selling point for the low end console if the resolution of the movie play back is not blu-ray quality? Is resolution not the single (only?) meaningful advantage of the blu-ray picture vs. standard DVD playback?

I sure hope then, if Microsoft's HD-DVD add-on solution doesn't include HDMI support, that you all consider it a full HD-DVD solution...because I wouldn't.

 

[expletive]

Just to set the record straight on HDMI cost:

Here's all their products:
http://www.siliconimage.com/products/productfamily.aspx?id=1

The PS3 would need an HDMI transmitter, probbaly this one:
http://www.siliconimage.com/news/press/detailpressrelease.aspx?id=217

Packaging, Pricing and Availability The latest PanelLink Cinema devices are manufactured in a 0.18-micron process. Silicon Image is currently sampling the devices to select customers. Volume production is scheduled for the second quarter of 2004. The SiI 9030 transmitter is packaged as an 80-pin TQFP and priced at $11.40 in 10K quantities. Packaged in a 144-pin TQFP, the SiI 9021 receiver is priced at $10.70 in 10K quantities. The SiI 9031 receiver is packaged in a 144-pin TQFP and priced at $14.10 in 10K quantities.

So about $12, not sure if this is per HDMI port or not. If so, i could see why they only chose to use 1. Over a 5 year/100 million unit lifecycle these things tend to add up.

Also, are we sure that component cant do 1080p? Well i'll answer myown question and say theres probably no TV that can do 1080p over component.....

 

[nonamer]

Really? How is blu-ray a selling point for the low end console if the resolution of the movie play back is not blu-ray quality? Is resolution not the single (only?) meaningful advantage of the blu-ray picture vs. standard DVD playback?

I sure hope then, if Microsoft's HD-DVD add-on solution doesn't include HDMI support, that you all consider it a full HD-DVD solution...because I wouldn't.

I sense a false dilemma here. Neither may be a full solution, but both will "play" all Bluray/HD-DVDs.

 

[inefficient]

http://www.analog.com/en/prod/0,,765_806_AD9889,00.html

Google seems to show that these chips supporting HDCP only cost in the ~$5 range.

If the HDCP keys and interface really is onboard the budget system, then the extra $100 is really just for a bigger HD + Memory card slots + Wifi Adaptor. (Not too different from MS's SKU strat really)

If so... I guess its entierly possible HDMI will be supported via dongle in the future.

 

[supervegeta]

Just to set the record straight on HDMI cost:

Here's all their products:
http://www.siliconimage.com/products/productfamily.aspx?id=1

The PS3 would need an HDMI transmitter, probbaly this one:
http://www.siliconimage.com/news/press/detailpressrelease.aspx?id=217





So about $12, not sure if this is per HDMI port or not. If so, i could see why they only chose to use 1. Over a 5 year/100 million unit lifecycle these things tend to add up.

Also, are we sure that component cant do 1080p? Well i'll answer myown question and say theres probably no TV that can do 1080p over component.....

Thanks but how much cost the HDCP chit itself ?

I higly dubt a chip stores that store a crypto key would cost anything near 80$

 

[NANOTEC]

If you don't give me the source about the 80$ HDCP chip cost what you say make no sense.

I never said the HDCP chip cost $80! I'm sorry but I'm done with this futile discussion. It's going nowhere with you.

 

[supervegeta]

I never said the HDCP chip cost $80! I'm sorry but I'm done with this futile discussion. It's going nowhere with you.

So you're saying they're leaving in the expensive HDCP chip in ALL consoles to sell a few HDMI cables? How much will these cables cost to make up the huge loss from the HDCP chips? $80?

Seems like you did

 

[expletive]

Thanks but how much cost the HDCP chit itself ?

I higly dubt a chip stores that store a crypto key would cost anything near 80$

The transmitter IS the HDCP chip, its built into the HDMI transmitter..

 

[inefficient]

Also, are we sure that component cant do 1080p? Well i'll answer myown question and say theres probably no TV that can do 1080p over component.....

Component can handle 1080p
http://www.hdtvsupply.com/coca10te1.html

 

[inefficient]

Thanks but how much cost the HDCP chit itself ?

I higly dubt a chip stores that store a crypto key would cost anything near 80$

AD9889 - High Performance HDMIâ„¢/DVI Transmitter

Only $4.73 per chip!! Buy yours today Sony!

 

[supervegeta]

AD9889 - High Performance HDMI™/DVI Transmitter
Only $4.73 per chip!! Buy yours today Sony!

SO why the hell was NANOTEC talking about an "expensive HDCP chip" ?

 

[expletive]

Component can handle 1080p
http://www.hdtvsupply.com/coca10te1.html

Thanks. My TV's component inputs cannot accept 1080p, nor can it 'deal with' a 1080p signal. I would guess that all older sets that dont have HDMI are probably in the same boat.

I wonder if the newer sets that do have HDMI and can accept 1080p over HDMI can ALSO accept 1080p over their component inputs. If not, then for all intents and purposes no HDMI=no 1080p.

 

[NANOTEC]

Seems like you did

Well I didn't you just didn't get the point. Last tiry, if you sell 30 million consoles and each HDMI chip cost $5 that's $150 million. Will you be selling HDMI cables 1:1 with the console? Hell no, hence you need to sell the cables at a higher price to make up for the loss. If every 1 out of 10 people buy this cable and you have 30 million people, how much will you need to sell the cable for to break even?

 

[supervegeta]

Thanks. My TV's component inputs cannot accept 1080p, nor can it 'deal with' a 1080p signal. I would guess that all older sets that dont have HDMI are probably in the same boat.

I wonder if the newer sets that do have HDMI and can accept 1080p over HDMI can ALSO accept 1080p over their component inputs. If not, then for all intents and purposes no HDMI=no 1080p.

As far a i know it is because TV resolutions by component are not used to support it, but if you use Vga for example you can have a 1080p resolution because the vga PC standard are used to support it.

 

[supervegeta]

Well I didn't you just didn't get the point.

The problem here, like always, is that you really don't have a point.

Last tiry, if you sell 30 million consoles and each HDMI chip cost $5 that's $150 million. Will you be selling HDMI cables 1:1 with the console? Hell no, hence you need to sell the cables at a higher price to make up for the loss. If every 1 out of 10 people buy this cable and you have 30 million people, how much will you need to sell the cable for to break even?

Again what you say make no sense at all, you can put the HDCP/hdmi chip in the cable using a proprietary connection.

 

[PeterT]

Well, my Dell 2405 FPW can do 1080p over component, and that's what I intended to play PS3 on in the first place. I also have more network cables, hubs, switches and routers around here than what most would consider healthy

So, overall, the "tard" PS3 seems like the best option to me currently. But as I'll only get the system once a must-have (to me) title is out (I guess the first may be FF13) the situation may still change.

(And before anyone asks, no, I don't plan on buying BD movies. I have not bought a single DVD in my life)