A Possible Solution to the Hard Drive Problem?

[Farid]

Even if you are only ever going to use it as a memory device its still would be an absolute bargin. A 64K(?) memory card for $40 (which in all lliklihood you are going to need to buy at least one more some time in the future. Cost = at least $80) or $50(ish) dollars for a 20 gig hard drive with loads of content, xbox 1 backwards compatability, loaded content etc,etc Surely nobody in their right mind would chose option 1.

The important technical point was the fact that the HDD could be used to stream data way faster than the DVD drive could. If the HDD would be used as a MC only, it's not that usefull for most people.

Also, they won't and can't sell it for $50.
$70 would be the rock bottom, if you ask me, a HDD is a complex electro mechanical device, its price do not scale like the price of semiconductors do. And as, Hardknock pointed out, hardware manufacturers make a lot of money on the accessories (For instance the official multitap for the PS2 in Europe was sold €45 at launch... The Multitap...).

I think I asked this question before...but never got a definitive answer. So here it goes.

Are you able to use any run of the mill 2.5" HDD? or does MS's HDD is the only one that will work with the 360?.

Respectively, AFAIK, no and yes.

 

[pc999]

Not that it would really matter though....because most 2.5" HDD's are still pretty expensive. The lowest one I could find (on TigerDirect and NewEgg) is around $67.

I am sure that MS can get them at a price well under that at 50 at least (total cost).

I still think that it is a execelent idea. It is an unoficial way to get 100% HDD ---> dev suport.

Just dont sell MC , and as you could do with MC make mandatory that a "MC" (HDD) is need to be present.

 

[Guden Oden]

And, no you can't "force" consumers to buy a HDD, if they want to play the game they bought. It won't be authorized by some legislations, and it won't fly with the consumer rights associations in the US.

I don't think that is correct. I don't see how it would be a problem to sell software that requires a particular hardware. There are PC games that require T&L accelerated graphics hardware. Perfect Dark for the N64 required the 4MB expansion pak for everything except 4-player multiplay. There were professional software back in the day (such as CAD programs) that required a maths coprocessor to be installed in the computer, etc.

 

[scooby_dooby]

The important technical point was the fact that the HDD could be used to stream data way faster than the DVD drive could. If the HDD would be used as a MC only, it's not that usefull for most people.

Of course it's useful, memory cards are expensive.

64MB? KOTOR saves are 20MB each and that what 2 years old? Sure they could cut down the size, but you get my point, buying multiple memory cards sucks, deleting save games because you have no more room sucks too. A HDD is the perfect solution and offers MUCH more value to the consumer.

also anyone interested on going on live, or downloading additional levels for their favourite game would be interested.

Also custom soundtracks, which you may think as a gimmick, but once you've actually used it in-game, it stops beign a gimmick and becomes a very cool feature that really adds to the game enjoyment IMO.

In addition, the 360 should have built in flags to detect when the HDD is present, and rather than streaming off DVD, it will cache to the HDD, Dev's are saying that this is extremely easy to implement.

 

[pharmer100]

Vysez - You may be right - I have no idea of the actually price of the hard drive to Microsoft - its just a ballpark figure. However, what ever the price is the loss Microsoft would make between the option I suggested and the the full bundle they are offering now cant be much different condering the amount of extras you get with it.

 

[scooby_dooby]

Well, all the stuff bundled for $399 is not free, the headset, component cables, remote control, wireless controller and faceplate surely add up to at least $30-$40 for MS manufacturing costs, which puts the HDD at a ballpark $60.

Why can't they offer the HDD as a peripheral at $60 then?

 

[BlueTsunami]

Well, all the stuff bundled for $399 is not free, the headset, component cables, remote control, wireless controller and faceplate surely add up to at least $30-$40 for MS manufacturing costs, which puts the HDD at a ballpark $60.

Why can't they offer the HDD as a peripheral at $60 then?

Probably for profit. There probably not manufacturing the HDD themselves so even if they offered it a $60 they wouldn't make a profit..right? I'm not to sure myself...but when its all said and done...$100 for a 20GB HDD...thats pretty steep. MS was also talking about higher capacity HDD's....I'm scared to see how much a 40GB HDD costs.

 

[pharmer100]

On a sort of seperate point - I think the core bundle is going to upset a lot of new customers, iIn which case they have managed to upset the hardcore fans and new customers (great job microsoft!!).

As scooby says its not going to take that long to fill up one memory card , especially if the new customer gets on live free with their siver account and really likes it. (which I assume they are supposed to in order to get them to them to pay for gold accounts or extra levels etc).

Now they have to keep buying new memory card sor cough up for the HDD. Which means after paying $40 dollars for a memory card I either pay another $40 dollar or folk out $100 dollars for the harddive and not get any nice extras that actually make the extra 100 dollars seem ok.

This also means th $40 dollars I paid for the memory card was a waste of money... and they still have to pay for gold and other bits and pieces. All because they decided to go for the cheap option when they didn't know any better. I can't seem many new customers being very happy about that.

Really the choice of the memory card instead of the harddrive as standard is only a good choice for somebody who is never go to buy many games or make use of any level of live. It that the customer Microsoft really want to be upsetting so many of their fans and potential gold live member for?

 

[scooby_dooby]

I'm pretty suret he HDD cost will drop signifigantly once the holiday rush is over.

If you look at the pricing it's meant to do one thing, sell the premium, from a manufacturing standpoint, they NEED to make sure that the majority of systems sold are the premium version.

Otherwise you'll have stores that have run out of cores systems, and have excess premium systems that can't be sold.

So the pricing is meant as a deterrent now, then in the future everything will drop down to prices that are affordable. Most things are fairly reasonable, but the HDD sticks out like a sore thumb.

 

[Farid]

I don't think that is correct. I don't see how it would be a problem to sell software that requires a particular hardware. There are PC games that require T&L accelerated graphics hardware. Perfect Dark for the N64 required the 4MB expansion pak for everything except 4-player multiplay. There were professional software back in the day (such as CAD programs) that required a maths coprocessor to be installed in the computer, etc.

Some games can require a particular hardware. Not all, if they all require a particular hardware and this one is not include in the original package, it won't be easy (If even possible) to get away with it from a consumers right laws and association point of view.

 

[Inane_Dork]

If you do away with memory cards and only sell the HDD for $50, people will complain they have to buy it and don't have a cheaper option (say, $15 - $20). Taking away people's options is a bad thing. What if they just stopped selling the wired controller because the wireless version is just a little more? Bad.

And all conclusions about how underutilized the X360's HDD will be are fairly premature. They may come true, but we'll have to see.

 

[bystander]

We know that MS has to pay royalties to nVidia to licence tech they need for backwards compatibility, does it mean that since the 360 Core version doesn't have backwards compatibility without the HDD they won't have to pay royalties to nv for each Core version sold? Or have I got the wrong idea?

 

[BlueTsunami]

We know that MS has to pay royalties to nVidia to licence tech they need for backwards compatibility, does it mean that since the 360 Core version doesn't have backwards compatibility without the HDD they won't have to pay royalties to nv for each Core version sold? Or have I got the wrong idea?

Basically if you get the HDD for the 360 and put it into a "Core" Version..you will then be able to play games on the Xbox. So basically EVERY 360 comes equiped with the ability to play Xbox games, it just needs to have a Harddrive.

 

[PG2G]

Every Xbox had the ability to play DVD movies, you just needed to plug in the remote sensor. The sensor alone was enough for them to avoid having to pay royalties, I'd assume a HDD works the same way.

 

[valioso]

If you do away with memory cards and only sell the HDD for $50, people will complain they have to buy it and don't have a cheaper option (say, $15 - $20). Taking away people's options is a bad thing. What if they just stopped selling the wired controller because the wireless version is just a little more? Bad.

And all conclusions about how underutilized the X360's HDD will be are fairly premature. They may come true, but we'll have to see.

the memory cards are $40 so you are already forcing them to buy a MC for $40, for $50 they get a HDD and also makes the HDD as a standar across the console because you have to have it.. just like you have to have a MC now if you ever want to have a any progress saved.

I dont think it will ever happen, but I get what the original post was trying to say and I think is an amazing idea..

 

[valioso]

Some games can require a particular hardware. Not all, if they all require a particular hardware and this one is not include in the original package, it won't be easy (If even possible) to get away with it from a consumers right laws and association point of view.

Dont all games require a MC to save progress...how is selling a MC at $40 or a HDD at $50 a big difference?

 

[Farid]

Dont all games require a MC to save progress...how is selling a MC at $40 or a HDD at $50 a big difference?

You can play the game without a MC. It just that you have to start from the beginning each time you play the game.
If a HDD is used as a cache it will be mandatory if you want to play the game. That's the difference in this scenario.

Also, they can't sell the HDD for $50.
The best they could have done is to probably sell a 40GB HDD for $99, though (2x20GB plates).
They decided to go with a 20GB HDD (only one 20GB plate), because they'll make a higher margin out of the HDD with this configuration. That's business.

 

[valioso]

You can play the game without a MC. It just that you have to start from the beginning each time you play the game.
If a HDD is used as a cache it will be mandatory if you want to play the game. That's the difference in this scenario.

Also, they can't sell the HDD for $50.
The best they could have done is to probably sell a 40GB HDD for $99, though (2x20GB plates).
They decided to go with a 20GB HDD (only one 20GB plate), because they'll make a higher margin out of the HDD with this configuration. That's business.

do you know anyone that doesnt buy MC?

 

[Inane_Dork]

the memory cards are $40 so you are already forcing them to buy a MC for $40, for $50 they get a HDD and also makes the HDD as a standar across the console because you have to have it.. just like you have to have a MC now if you ever want to have a any progress saved.

Well then the problem is that the memory card is overpriced, which is true.

If MS is going to require you to buy an accessory for the thing, the least they can do is offer options. Better still, they can offer reasonably priced options. They screwed the second step, but this plan would screw the first step.

 

[jvd]

My thought is simple

Next year when sony comes out with the ps3 they are going to want to offer a hardrive bigger than ms's .



So what ms is going to do is knock the 20 gig price down really low to make it stupid not to buy it instead of a memory card and then offer a 40gig drive for 100ish .

Then they are going to make the big games run better (noticably faster loads ) and offer tons of free content online (like halo 2 map packs) to drive adoption rates up .

If they can stick to thier current rumored shipping quanits (85% premium , 15% core) they might be able to drive up hardrive installed base to 90% and at that point i can see hopefully alot of games taking advantage of caching and alot of mmorpgs come out because 90% isn't to bad .

However ms can mess this up and do 50/50 on premium and core and ruin that chance