Now that 3DMark05 is almost upon us and with NVIDIA on Futuremark's Beta Development Program, do you think certain websites (almost all of which have no idea what 3DMark05 is about right now, save for Beyond3D, ExtremeTech and CNet) who had "opposed the use of 3DMark03 in hardware reviews" will have a change of heart once they can experience 3DMark05 for themselves?
3DMark05 and certain websites
- Thread starter Reverend
- Start date
Rev,
IMHO I doubt many of the anti-3DMark sites will change their mind. The point is 3DMark is still a benchmark that doesn't represent game usage since it's solely a synthetic benchmark. The only possible way for some of those sites to change their mind is if 3DMark05 uses an actual game engine that is also used by a game.
Other factors will probably also affect their decision like the requirement to only use certified drivers when doing testing. If it happens again that NVIDIA's driver continually fails to be certified then there's no real incentive for them to use the test. If they removed the certified driver requirement, then a few of them may be more apt to support it. But only if they don't have to worry about cheating or optizimations nullifying the results.
Tommy McClain
IMHO I doubt many of the anti-3DMark sites will change their mind. The point is 3DMark is still a benchmark that doesn't represent game usage since it's solely a synthetic benchmark. The only possible way for some of those sites to change their mind is if 3DMark05 uses an actual game engine that is also used by a game.
Other factors will probably also affect their decision like the requirement to only use certified drivers when doing testing. If it happens again that NVIDIA's driver continually fails to be certified then there's no real incentive for them to use the test. If they removed the certified driver requirement, then a few of them may be more apt to support it. But only if they don't have to worry about cheating or optizimations nullifying the results.
Tommy McClain
Ahem!Reverend said:
I believe you missed Elite Bastards in your list there Rev, check the credits.
Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.
Legend
AzBat said:
They will if Nvidia tell them to. Seriously, with the first big benchmarking tool for SM3.0 that Nvidia can use in their marketing, Nvidia will back 3DMark05 and tell everyone to use it. Nvidia will produce a white paper claiming that this version is more fair than the last version, and spoon-feed it to websites who will parrot it back to us as they explain why they are now prepared to back 3DMark05.
I think 3DMark03 was just a case of the messenger getting shot.
A lot of people saw GeForce as the symbol of 3d acceleration, and some weird benchmark that suddenly claimed this weird Radeon stuff was lots faster, well... those weren't just lies, that was pure blasphemy!
I think it's the same with Doom3. Pretty much all reviews I've read, are very positive about the game. But if you look at some of the reactions from actual gamers (even on this forum, for example), not everyone is impressed. For example, people think the gameplay is far too repetitive and predictable. Again, this is pure blasphemy ofcourse.
I suppose a lot of people are just afraid to have an opinion that deviates from the average, including a lot of websites, which should have journalists who try to remain objective, but apparently don't.
Question is: what is the status of the GeForce today? Did 3DMark and other games succeed in convincing people that Radeons are just as good? Did it make people swing around, and is the Radeon now the symbol of 3d acceleration?
I think, or hope at least, that now the general consensus is that Radeons and GeForces are both equally good cards, with their unique strong and weak points. In which case, if 3DMark05 stumbles upon any strong or weak points, there won't be a big deal made out of it.
A lot of people saw GeForce as the symbol of 3d acceleration, and some weird benchmark that suddenly claimed this weird Radeon stuff was lots faster, well... those weren't just lies, that was pure blasphemy!
I think it's the same with Doom3. Pretty much all reviews I've read, are very positive about the game. But if you look at some of the reactions from actual gamers (even on this forum, for example), not everyone is impressed. For example, people think the gameplay is far too repetitive and predictable. Again, this is pure blasphemy ofcourse.
I suppose a lot of people are just afraid to have an opinion that deviates from the average, including a lot of websites, which should have journalists who try to remain objective, but apparently don't.
Question is: what is the status of the GeForce today? Did 3DMark and other games succeed in convincing people that Radeons are just as good? Did it make people swing around, and is the Radeon now the symbol of 3d acceleration?
I think, or hope at least, that now the general consensus is that Radeons and GeForces are both equally good cards, with their unique strong and weak points. In which case, if 3DMark05 stumbles upon any strong or weak points, there won't be a big deal made out of it.
If 05 shows the 6800 series above the XX00 series will some sites stop using it? Will it have the same effect as 03 had? I think those are the questions that need to be asked. Having someone go into the fold for reasons other than yours may not necessarily be a bad thing (such as a rich person giving a lot of money to a worthy charity not because the charity is worthy, but because it makes that rich person feel good).
Reverend said:
Hopefully not, I have been pretty satisfied with the exclusion of synthetic benchmarks such as Aquamark, 3dmark03 and Codecreatures. Unfortunately I am guessing you're right that it will be used, Taking into the account its the newest thing will also serve to promote it more unfortunately.
With the exception of Hardocp, I find it hard to believe they would use any 3dmark product or synthetic benchmark in there test suites.
ChrisRay said:
I think thats very short sighted iro 3dmark03 at least. Without 3dmark03 we would never have known so early have much better the R3xx was at DX9 over the FX. The score isn't it's true worth, the individual tests for what they do are ie. the PS tests and teh individual games tell you a lot. GT2 showed for well over a year that the R3xx's would struggle big rtme with AA on Doom3 for example.
It's not the tool it's how you use it. (fnarr fnarr..)
What blows my mind about all those folks who slammed 3DMark03 based on Nvidia prompting.... is that 3DMark03 was proven to be an *EXCELLENT* predictor of the cards actual performance prior to Nvidia fsking with their drivers. And each patch proved that accuracy time after time.
I still can't believe the attitudes some folks have to 3dm03 when the benchmark has been proven right all along. Talk about truly allowing themselves to get blinded by marketing. Pretty sad actually. I still don't really understand how Nvidia has been given such a pass on that whole sack of crap.
I still can't believe the attitudes some folks have to 3dm03 when the benchmark has been proven right all along. Talk about truly allowing themselves to get blinded by marketing. Pretty sad actually. I still don't really understand how Nvidia has been given such a pass on that whole sack of crap.
Randell said:
I would still rather tests such shadermark be used to test performance, The FX wasnt slow in Every DirectX 9.0 game either, I'm not really interested in getting in an argument about 3dmark, But I will promptly ignore any scores, In future products with tests like Aquamark and 3dmark03/05, There are other good utilities for testing performance of such titles, The only real benefit I could see to using such tools is to get more content into a review quick because they are relatively simple programs to use.
HL2, EQ2, Doom 3, and practically any game performance will be quite a bit more useful, As are multi API targets.
IgnorancePersonified
Regular
Bouncing Zabaglione Bros. said:
I'll go with that - if not a whitepaper then something similar in the press kits.
Could be a gradual reverse - "In testing the nv-blah blah we had to resort to 3dmark05 since the gf-blah is so advanced no games currently use the future proof feature set....". A few disclaimers which will gradually disappear as the collective acceptance takes place. Saying that I think some sites will stick to their guns.
That is of course if the sm3 tests shine for nv?
Bit of a load blowing thread though
Randell said:
I agree. I don't get this constant complaining about 3D Mark. It's of course always a question on how much you should focus on a single benchmark but that's always the case.
Doesn't mean that i believe that 3D Mark 05 will the absolute answer to how the cards will perform in f.e UE3 engine based games but it'll at least be something.
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