[360/PS3/PC] Another New XCOM game coming from Firaxis (RTS/TBS hybrid)

Hmmm. Really don't like the idea of classes. In a way it adds depth, but it also adds complexity. In the original you'd just give the sniper rifles to the guys who had better accuracy etc., just going by stats, but you were free to mix things up however you wanted. Especially when it came to stealing the aliens' dropped weapons. Upgrading a 'snap shot' for snipers shows complexity in movement. What was wrong before with having 'reserve TUs for snap shot' enabled on all your troops and letting them get pot shots in the aliens' movement phase? I'm a little bit worried they'll actually slow down tactical combat by having more things to worry about. The original was pretty perfect - kit out your troops, march them off the plane, and issue commands the same way whether sniping, manically gunning, brain-draining, stunning, etc. It was a very flexible system that never left me feeling limited.

I think classes is one of their "streamlining" things. Instead of deciding by stats who to give what equipment to, you decide by class now. At least that's my guess. I'd prefer the stat system as it made each little Xcom guy feel more personal and I became invested in quite a few of my little guys. :D

Not something I'd like, but it's something I'd be able to live with.

Damn, I'm thinking about buying it on Steam now. :p I only have the original Floppies which probably aren't even readable anymore. :D

Regards,
SB
 
Ethereal appearance depends on the difficulty setting. As far as I know, on the highest setting you can get your base invaded by Psi-capable enemies as early as January. That means that you need to hire a bunch of extra soldiers from the start with the knowledge that many of them will inevitably die, and begin developing at least a laser pistol from day 1 to have any chance to survive the first month. The game becomes a completely different experience there.
 
If I didn't say it already, I'll say it now - they raped the original art wise completely. Only sectoids are even somewhere near what they should be, and even they're not there - the rest are just abominations, nowhere near what they were :devilish:
 
This is on my short watch list. It will be curious if they pack in any local play or what MP options, if any.
 
Got a good review at Penny Arcade:

This isn’t to say that the game has bowed down to modern sensibilities. Enemy Unknown features an extensive tutorial that does an amazing job of introducing players to the game, but you can also turn on Classic and Ironman mode if you’re ready for a more anachronistic challenge. This modern XCOM is willing to coddle players who need it and punish players who ask for it. Even with quick-saves you can lose the game if enough countries pull out of the XCOM project due to your inability to protect them, which means that if you make enough poor decisions early in the game it can be hard to pull out of the nosedive. In many cases it seems like the hardcore fans are confusing the game’s welcoming nature for a game that has been dumbed down. Nothing could be further from the truth. Dead soldiers stay dead. It’s possible to lose on both the micro and the macro scale. You learn the importance of cover very quickly.
 
Did fast couple hour test with normal difficulty, ironman challenge and the game feels very good.
There is possibility to start game without tutorials and it certainly is preferred if you feel confident enough. (more freedom in beginning of game.)
 
Played the demo on PS3. It's very short, and doesn't look a lot of the content. A game like this would probably benefit from a lengthier demo to show its depth. The two encounters are also very controlled. One's a scripted tute, and the second is a semi-scripted mission by the numbers.

The addition of troop levelling and classes is, I guess, one direction to take the game, although I feel it's a simplification of the original. in fact the whole thing does feel like a simplification so far. I guess it depends somewhat on how you can change the loadouts, but the rocket launcher being a perk of a particular troop class and not something you can equip every soldier should you wish seems an unnecessary limitation. One tactic I employed in the original was auto cannons for everyone, with incendiary and explosive rounds. Incendiary rounds could be used to light night maps, and exploding rounds meant you didn't need to be a great shot to drop aliens. Carrying all that weight around every mission also boosted the soldiers' strength wonderfully. :)

I also don't see how far the two moves can get you. You're encouraged to run to cover because stopping out in the open ends your movement, so no gradual inching forwards as the original had. That seems to be reducing suspense IMO. I'll miss edging a soldier forwards one step at a time looking for an alien, never knowing if they'll get the opportunity fire, and not having those "turn around and run away" moments where you hope the aliens miss as you retreat. If the number of moves increases with experience, it might work out, but it currently feels quite different in gameplay ambience. The lack of random maps also loses some of the original's appeal, as after some play you'll know the play of every map (unless there are gazillions).

I'll definitely get it at some point, probably Chrimbo, but the demo didn't inspire.

Oh, and the contrast is weak. Dunno if it's because of the fog or they've got the levels wrong, but 'black' appears more dark blue on this monitor, and it's hard to make out the scenery.
 
The addition of troop levelling and classes is, I guess, one direction to take the game, although I feel it's a simplification of the original. in fact the whole thing does feel like a simplification so far. I guess it depends somewhat on how you can change the loadouts, but the rocket launcher being a perk of a particular troop class and not something you can equip every soldier should you wish seems an unnecessary limitation.

I bought this after hearing all of the positive reviews. I enjoyed the original and was optimistic that Firaxis could do a good adaptation of the themes of the original with a more modern take.

The differentiation of troops by their assigned role is actually anything but a simplification. Since you don't have direct control over what role a soldier gets assigned (as rookies, they have no role, it is only after they gain their first level [squaddie] that they automatically get assigned one) you have to consciously make an effort to rotate your soldiers in order to have depth on your roster. Your soldiers *will* get injured/killed and be out of action meaning you lose their earned abilities and any one ability can be vital during a mission, depending on how it plays out. And because of the soldier leveling and skill trees, losing a veteran soldier hurts a lot more than it ever did in the original.

I'll post more details when I have more time, but the demo is probably restricted to the tutorial that restricts your actions and only introduces the game concepts gradually. This restricted period is actually quite lengthy (I understand that you can forgo this early-game tutorial if you choose, which you obviously would on additional playthroughs). It isn't until the game fully opens up that you can appreciate the depth. I feel very much like a plate spinner and the game keeps adding more plates. Given that I already know that I wasn't prioritizing my use of resources properly (put too much into tactical and not enough into strategic) I feel like it's only a matter of time before the whole thing comes crashing down. But that just means that I can start over with a better plan!

I also don't see how far the two moves can get you. You're encouraged to run to cover because stopping out in the open ends your movement, so no gradual inching forwards as the original had. That seems to be reducing suspense IMO. I'll miss edging a soldier forwards one step at a time looking for an alien, never knowing if they'll get the opportunity fire, and not having those "turn around and run away" moments where you hope the aliens miss as you retreat. If the number of moves increases with experience, it might work out, but it currently feels quite different in gameplay ambience. The lack of random maps also loses some of the original's appeal, as after some play you'll know the play of every map (unless there are gazillions).

There are some class abilities that modify the two move restriction and others that add additional movement range. The "inching forward" you speak of was just because the AI was so unbelievably cheap. Trust me when I tell you, you can still move a bit too far forward into a nasty surprise and that one poor move can set in motion of cascade of events that will kill your whole squad. So...it's XCOM :). The tactical game, to me, is like an evolved form of chess.

FWIW, I was literally just re-playing the original X-Com prior to the release of this game and I feel that this game is better in every way.
 
I don't think I ever played the original, but so far hearing very positive things on podcasts - though Ryan from the Bombcast apparently had to switch to Easy from Normal eventually because the game gets really tough (and that's what I'm hearing from other podcasts as well).

I downloaded the demo on PC earlier, but haven't tried it yet, am too busy playing Rocksmith whenever my arms and shoulders are rested enough from my previous session. ;)

Will definitely try at some point though.
 
I don't think I ever played the original, but so far hearing very positive things on podcasts - though Ryan from the Bombcast apparently had to switch to Easy from Normal eventually because the game gets really tough (and that's what I'm hearing from other podcasts as well).

I downloaded the demo on PC earlier, but haven't tried it yet, am too busy playing Rocksmith whenever my arms and shoulders are rested enough from my previous session. ;)

Will definitely try at some point though.

Ever play Final Fantasy Tactics?
 
The differentiation of troops by their assigned role is actually anything but a simplification. Since you don't have direct control over what role a soldier gets assigned (as rookies, they have no role, it is only after they gain their first level [squaddie] that they automatically get assigned one) you have to consciously make an effort to rotate your soldiers in order to have depth on your roster. Your soldiers *will* get injured/killed and be out of action meaning you lose their earned abilities and any one ability can be vital during a mission, depending on how it plays out. And because of the soldier leveling and skill trees, losing a veteran soldier hurts a lot more than it ever did in the original.
I understand that, and you're right. 'Simplification' is the wrong word. Where before it was your responsibility to kit out your troops to create whatever balance was needed, now it's about balancing randomised outcomes, where you can't rely on having a particular skill or item available. As you say, it's adding a lot more spinning plates, more than the original. The original's balancing in the combat came down to a couple of things. First, your rookie hardware, which was solved with autocannons. Second, keeping them alive long enough to level, which meant a bit a of carefulness until you had some decent armour. And lots of quicksaving and reloading if you're cheap. Which TBH I felt was necessary when you had those late-level moments with an alien still alive somewhere on the map, and you just wanted to run out and find them. Finally, once you had plasma cannons and flying suits the troop kit was standardised, the only question then was psionics. You'd want as strong psis as possible, both for alien control and resistance.

I can see this version is going to keep the variety for much longer.

I would like to see the 'run to spot, but stop first if you see an enemy' mechanic though. That's very important and realistic. A soldier may well have the intention to get to cover, but if they spot an alien then they'd reevaluate. So if you've move 5 out of ten space in a movement and an enemy comes into view, I'd like to be able to retarget the remaining five spaces of movement.
 
I had the original on Amiga CD32 and I liked it quite a bit, despite the Amiga-version having some serious technical issues, mainly incredibly long loading times in certain situations. I'll buy this at some point, but I have kinda made a promise to myself not to buy any new games until I have finished all the games that I already have, which is plenty...
 
I understand that, and you're right. 'Simplification' is the wrong word. Where before it was your responsibility to kit out your troops to create whatever balance was needed, now it's about balancing randomised outcomes, where you can't rely on having a particular skill or item available.

It's all still there, it's just implemented using different mechanics and there's more depth to it.

As you say, it's adding a lot more spinning plates, more than the original. The original's balancing in the combat came down to a couple of things. First, your rookie hardware, which was solved with autocannons. Second, keeping them alive long enough to level, which meant a bit a of carefulness until you had some decent armour. And lots of quicksaving and reloading if you're cheap. Which TBH I felt was necessary when you had those late-level moments with an alien still alive somewhere on the map, and you just wanted to run out and find them. Finally, once you had plasma cannons and flying suits the troop kit was standardised, the only question then was psionics. You'd want as strong psis as possible, both for alien control and resistance.

I can see this version is going to keep the variety for much longer.

I would like to see the 'run to spot, but stop first if you see an enemy' mechanic though. That's very important and realistic. A soldier may well have the intention to get to cover, but if they spot an alien then they'd reevaluate. So if you've move 5 out of ten space in a movement and an enemy comes into view, I'd like to be able to retarget the remaining five spaces of movement.

There are innumerable mechanical differences between the original and this re-make, but the remarkable thing is that AFAICT all of the same tactical considerations from the original are still there. And then they added more, but did so in a way that meshed with those original core mechanics. Instead of copying the original game and tweaking it, they deconstructed the original game, analyzed it and then re-built it from the ground up. Impressively, despite this, it still feels like XCom to me and not just because of the superficial elements that they retained.
 
Preordered this remake as soon it was available (BTW, preordered Xenonauts years ago) and I am not sorry, even though I still think the original is better (even though the UI et al are much worse, but that is logical).

Playing on Classic difficulty, turned off the stupid training missions etc., as it is way too much holding my hand for my taste. I used reload many times in missions, haven't I done that I would probably be in quite some problems, even though, IMO, classic is about as hard as normal on the original/Apocalypse (my favourite of all those games, would love an remake of that).

mrcorbo, explained the connection between the original and this one perfectly!

Anyway, those who play the demo and fear it is that way the whole time, fear not, you can turn of the training missions and you can ignore the PRIORITY research (it would be even better if this would be turned off in the hardcore difficulty). But, it even though I am not finished, I really see that this one does not give much replay value...

I hope the modding community will do wonders on this one, because the potential is really there.

Cheers...
 
Are you encountering the same maps over and over? Mention of no random maps kinda scared me. Okay, the orignal's randomness wasn't amazingly varied, but it did change each encounter depending on where you landed (eg. City missions, whether landing on road or in among buildings).
 
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