[360/PS3/PC] Another New XCOM game coming from Firaxis (RTS/TBS hybrid)

Reading the same in the EG comments thread. You can only have one base, which means you have to choose your base perk. That gives a potential of 5 playthroughs to see how base choice affects the game. But the maps are small and someone's saying he's already learning them and the way to clear them. I'm wondering if the choice for static maps was more a DLC-driven idea?
 
I tried the demo, and as a complete noob (well almost), I needed some of the handholding, but also thought I got freedom quick enough. However, I think all the cutscenes in this game and the general presentation is just completely uninteresting. I'm hearing from others that the story bits actually get quite decent, but for me, something like Command & Conquer did it better ages ago presentation wise, and that's saying something. ;) I think I'd rather have FMV real-actor mix-tapes than this blandness, in other words.

I think the last game I played that comes close to this was Killzone Liberation on PSP actually, and I'd love a game like this that looked a lot more like that one but with bigger play-fields, and maybe a bit more turn-based like X-Com to make it less hectic and more strategic.

I bet static maps were chosen to just make it easier on QA, and perhaps the level designers. Few have the guts to do anything random these days.
 
There are a few things that I don't like about it:
-can't hire based on stats (identical), neither class (randomly chosen after a mission).
-streamlined action system + class bonus instead of the pool of points from the original, weaker.
-"vigilance" means your people will open fire on first ennemy move, you can't decide whether to shoot or not, neither when. (Many times your guy opens fire before the ennemy is fully out of cover, which is STUPID. Also sometimes a far away ennemy gets out of cover and your guy shoots it with a shotgun, whereas you wanted him to shoot a closer ennemy should it show up...)
-can't hire engineers and scientists... (leading to next problem)
-3 missions at once giving you different bonus crew, that's a big pain in the ass, since engineers are critical (due to satellites and production), and so you may have to loose a country to get them. I don't think it adds to the game.

Not so sure about:
-Base side view, still wondering about why it changed.
-Single base, makes it simpler, but can't react to many UFO at once like in the original, different.
-interceptions, about the same as the original, it was a weak point of the original, a new take on it could have been welcome.


I'm playing classic mode, on my second game, abandoned the first as I did too many mistakes, might also give up on that one too as I didn't deploy enough satellites neither prioritized engineers. :(
The game is still addictive but the first point and occurence of the third make it very frustrating at times.

EDIT
Would *really* like:
-Remove % to hit, make that % of damage dealt, vary given range, cover and weapon.

Could be fun:
-Cooperative multiplayer, one base per player, one soldier per player when deployed in a mission (or something like that).
 
I've talked about a potential coop mode with friends. It'd be a great idea to collaborate on moving given troops - it'd need perfect communication-based teamwork. I even floated the idea of a cooperative turn-based game with a dev friend for PS Home, but Sony weren't interested.

The more I hear about this game, I more worries I have. I'll still get it, but the changes sound like forced problems. The inability to sell manufactured items and the inability to hire and fire as you want means you are being forced into very unnatural dilemmas imposed by game design choices. It's like the devs felt the core differentiator for the original was the possibility of failure, and have designed the game on increasing that (from what I hear. Haven't played yet beyond demo). In the original, smart thinking made it possible to secure success. You'd set up manufacturing to generate funds. You'd install bases around the world to expand coverage. You could set up your troops however you wanted, and by exercising them in the field you could even train them to become the preferred soldier class. Now it sounds like smart options have been squeezed out and you have to deal with the random options available instead. It effectively eliminates long-term strategy and replaces it with reactionary tactics as you edge towards the final goal, picking whichever option is available. That's not really the same game on the strategic side.

I can see how multiple playthroughs could help develop an understanding of the underlying mechanics to improve decision making, but then the choice of fixed maps undermines the enjoyment to be had from multiple playthroughs.

All in all, it just sounds a bit wrong. Or at least, very different. People who have never played the original will see the game differently as they won't appreciate the freedoms that this version is missing. And people like me who played the original a lot are going to be going in with expectations and getting disappointed when we find they're wrong. eg. In the demo there's 5 options for base sites. I assumed you could start at one and expand to the others. Now I know that's not an option, and I'm a little :(.
 
I also played the original a lot, so I can understand how you feel.
Be assured the game is still addictive (but so is FTL which is purely random), but you *will* get frustrated by the lack of choice compared to the original, and shout at times when a soldier does something you wish you could control. (and you could in the original)

I was saying to friends this week-end that this game is close to the original, but unfortunately everything they changed is inferior to the original.
It's a bit harsh, because a few different things are just on-par, but I stand by it none-the-less.
Amazingly I'd say it's still a good game... Which makes me assume a pure graphical revamp of the original would have been awesome.
 
If it were me, I'd take the original as is, tweak the visuals (natch. Go 3D with full camera swivel maybe. Although I loved the over-the-top style of the original. Maybe provide two skins :)), add some more variety in tech and stuff, and then iron out the major gripes with the original in terms of slowness of movements and the interception tedium. The mechanics of X-COM were nigh perfect with the tactical choices being made, and they afforded a lot of freedom in things like raiding dead bodies, carrying teammate in backpacks, etc. Throw in some environmental hazards and tractor-beam skills, being able to move items around (telekinesis and devices), and maybe even some card-game like intercept moves (skills to act in middle of enemy action for fast response), and the gameplay could be advanced a lot. I'm not sure reinventing the game was necessary; the original had a load of potential.
 
It seems that this game doesn't include a random generator for anything.

Example:
Make a save in a mission, do what you do, shoot what you shoot etc, watch the next alien turn too.
Take the load, and repeat exactly what you did - with any randomness, chances are everything doesn't go exactly the same way, but in case of XCOM, it does - the guys shooting hit or miss like they did on last try, and with same damage etc. Same goes for aliens on their following turn.
Every. Single. Time.

Now, if you do even one thing different, what happens on alien turn etc change too, but if you repeat the procedure, ie take load, do the one thing you did differently in the same different manner, it again repeats everything that happened on the first time you did it differently.
 
Kaotik said:
It seems that this game doesn't include a random generator for anything.
Click to expand...

Apparently, it does have randomness, but it saves it during the course of the game, and then reuses it the previous results. I'm not sure why, maybe it's supposed to stop you getting around screw-ups by simply reloading a save game and getting different rolls. You have to do significantly different things to get different results.
 
nah it just generates a table of random numbers probably refreshed every now and then, so to work around that you need to "spend the number" and hope the next one is better.
A lot of old games used to do that too.

Still think there should be little/none and do damage based on weapon, range and cover only.
 
I seem to have managed to recover from my poor strategic situation and am now in a much better position, still only having lost 2 countries. I learned that getting satellite and interceptor coverage over as many countries as possible needs to be a priority right from the get-go. I currently have one country panicking, but am poised to launch the last two satellites I need to cover every country save the 2 I've lost which will calm them down. A little advice here, have more satellites available to launch than you have uplicks/nexii(sp?) to support them. It takes 20 days to acquire a satellite and a much shorter time to build the accompanying base facility. Plus the aliens can destroy your satellites
until you develop stealth satellite technology
so you might need a quick replacement.

I also didn't initially build enough workshops, so I was short on engineers for longer than I should have been. So, as an example of the types of interconnected resources you need to manage you need to:

  • Build and launch satellites
  • To launch satellites you need to build satellite uplinks or nexii in your base , which require engineers and power.
  • To get engineers you need to build workshops in your base which require power.
  • To get power, you need to build power generators which require engineers.
And all of the above requires you to spend credits that you then can't use to buy equipment for your troops and interceptors.

You're constantly having to make choices which force you to give up something in order to get something else. And often the choice isn't between "want" and "need", but is instead between "need badly" and "need desperately". This is where my plate spinner analogy came from, since it seems you are always just on the edge of disaster and trying to attend to a wobbly plate while you hope that the others stay up long enough for you to get back to them before it's too late.
 
Rodéric said:
nah it just generates a table of random numbers probably refreshed every now and then.
Click to expand...
The same seed for whatever number generator would do that, although they'll want to randomise each game or somesuch otherwise you could have the same encounters panning out the same way on each playthrough (assuming identical choices by the player). I suppose it is necessary to avoid really extreme cheating by reloading over and over until you make that low-chance headshot, but it doesn't solve the issue of reloading and changing tactics.
 
Shifty Geezer said:
The same seed for whatever number generator would do that, although they'll want to randomise each game or somesuch otherwise you could have the same encounters panning out the same way on each playthrough (assuming identical choices by the player). I suppose it is necessary to avoid really extreme cheating by reloading over and over until you make that low-chance headshot, but it doesn't solve the issue of reloading and changing tactics.
Click to expand...

Not sure about the seed I remember reloading the same game a few times and getting different results for an interception...

If they want to go through the hassle of reloading many times, why not let them ? (It's only a game...)
 
I don't disagree with that sentiment. I'm all in favour of letting players 'cheat' games as long as they don't mess other people about. I once played XCOM having hex-edited the weapon stats to give rifles a 255 damage (and Blaster Bombs only went as high as 200!). When there are online leadboards and the like, cheating is probably to be discouraged.

But this may not have even been a design decision, because they haven't solved the issue in other ways. Then again, I suppose a fixed random number sequence means they must be saving the random number seed. I simple test starting two games and playing the same level exactly the same way should reveal if there's a fixed seed for everyone or a different one per playthrough, and if the latter, I can only assume it's to stop forcing random outcomes.
 
Aaahhhahhaaa at the final turn of my first playthrough
All was well, I had well positioned troops before triggering the final ethereals - I then activate the last fight, first shoot off (accidently though, was too trigger happy as I was supposed to fire at the main-ethereal) one of the elite mutons, then miss couple times on the main-ethereal, get one good hit on it, MC the second elite muton with the last remaining unit (got 5 there, and 1 flying SHIV which sadly got destroyed earlier in the fight)

So, alien turn - the 2nd ethereal uses some mega-mind-fry on the MC'd muton, killing it - one of my snipers panics and shoots the main-ethereal dead on alien turn. game over, I win :LOL:
 
The "second wave" is supposed to be for second playthrough, and should be available later officially after a patch
 
Ah I see.
Well they have a tool to let you change a number of things in the game, including having a chance to spot UFO before they carry on their missions so you might not have the pick 1 on 3 choice, although that makes the game a little harder since spotting them increases terror ^^

Also Satellites are amusingly the most time consuming item to build in the game, higher than even something like the firestorm...


I may give a shot at modifying the game, to turn the %chance to hit into %damage instead.
(But that is more involving than changing an data text file.)
 
Kaotik said:
The "second wave" is supposed to be for second playthrough, and should be available later officially after a patch
Click to expand...
Is this for console do you know? Why isn't it currently activated for second playthroughs? Not even time to bug-test I guess, given that some aspects are bugged.
 
No idea, but I'm quite sure it was at least unofficially confirmed, probably just lack of time to test I suppose.
 
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