22 nm Larrabee

Discussion in 'Architecture and Products' started by Nick, May 6, 2011.

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  1. trinibwoy

    trinibwoy Meh
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    That's not the issue. The issue is that they're willing to boast about in-house numbers but aren't letting anyone else report their findings. That's not usual behavior by Intel.
     
  2. nAo

    nAo Nutella Nutellae
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    Again, how is this any different from customers getting processors from Intel months earlier than the official launch? I suggest you to check some of the Haswell numbers that were "boasted" at IDF in Setpember. Do you expect Mr. EarlyAdopter NDASigned to be able to report his findings before the product ships? :)
     
  3. A1xLLcqAgt0qc2RyMz0y

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    Xeon Phi 5110P looks underwhelming

    The Xeon Phi 5110P only comes in at 1.01 Peak DP TFlops and burns 225 watts on the 22nm process.

    http://techreport.com/news/23884/intel-joins-the-data-parallel-computing-fraternity-with-xeon-phi

    The Tesla K20X has 1.31 Peak DP TFlops and burns 235 watts on the 28nm process.

    http://techreport.com/news/23882/nvidia-intros-tesla-k20-series-as-titan-snags-top500-lead

    The Xeon Phi 5110P is 23% slower than the Tesla K20X yet burns about the same power and is on a newer process (22nm). It look pretty underwhelming to me.
     
  4. nAo

    nAo Nutella Nutellae
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    TFlops alone are hardly an accurate way of measuring performance.
     
  5. iMacmatician

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    Also, from The Register and SemiAccurate, we see that the Xeon Phi die has 62 cores (which was already known), and there are also die photos (I haven't seen them before).

    [​IMG]
     
  6. A1xLLcqAgt0qc2RyMz0y

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    And yet that is how they rank the Top500 so it must mean something.

    http://www.hpcwire.com/hpcwire/2012...nycore_x86_to_market_with_knights_corner.html

     
  7. nAo

    nAo Nutella Nutellae
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    IIRC Top500 is based on LINPACK, not raw flop numbers.
     
  8. AlexV

    AlexV Heteroscedasticitate
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    Outside of certain extremity waggling the top500 thing is pretty useless. There is lots of life in the real-world outside of super-tuned Linpack and FLOP counting. That doesn't make big Kettle uninteresting, or Xeon Shi less of a potential breath of fresh air.
     
  9. pcchen

    pcchen Moderator
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    I always view LINPACK as the "best case scenario." That is, real world applications rarely outperform LINPACK performance, so it can be seen as a "real world peak."
     
  10. A1xLLcqAgt0qc2RyMz0y

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    Charlie is having an orgasism

    at S|A over the Xeon Phi

    A look at the Xeon Phi cards and hardware

    http://semiaccurate.com/2012/11/12/a-look-at-the-xeon-phi-cards-and-hardware/

    What does it take to code for a Xeon Phi?

    http://semiaccurate.com/2012/11/12/what-does-it-take-to-code-for-a-xeon-phi/

    What will Intel Xeon Phi do to the GPGPU market?

    http://semiaccurate.com/2012/11/13/what-will-intel-xeon-phi-do-to-the-gpgpu-market/

    ----

    He actually believes that the Xeon Phi will be the end of Nvidia in HPC and GPGPU markets. Of course he also believed that Larrabee would be the end of Nvidia in GPUs completely, which he was completely wrong on. But hey it's charlie and he can never be wrong :wink:

    It's also funny he hasn't even had an article on the K20X/K20 (except for his usual yield garbage).
     
  11. 3dilettante

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    Larrabee is more compelling in the compute space, though.

    A product that is baseline acceptable for CPU-based HPC is bleeding edge for GPGPU in terms of tools and features for Nvidia.
    Nvidia has added some features like the ability to self-generate tasks that are a "well, duh" thing for any CPU solution, and Nvidia is the only one GPU designer worth mentioning in that market.

    Larrabee is a legitimately serious threat here.
     
  12. A1xLLcqAgt0qc2RyMz0y

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    Xeon Phi DGEMM Scores 0.829 TFlops

    Wasn't Intel hyping the Xeon Phi DGEMM scores months before the release?

    Now it is buried deep in the footnotes here:

    http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/processors/xeon/xeon-phi-detail.html

    As a comparison the Nvidia Tesla K20X scores 1.22 TFlops on DGEMM or 47% faster. Also note the 5110P is slower than the SE10P
     
  13. 3dilettante

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    The rule of thumb is that an exotic solution needs an order of magnitude difference in performance to really justify itself against what is already established.

    A GPGPU is still a pretty exotic slave card, and Phi is rather familiar and it can operate more autonomously.
    DGEMM is also a very good case for a GPU and Larrabee probably has a much more consistent performance profile.

    Maybe if Maxwell brings along a decent amount of CPU capability, it can allow for the posited task-sharing between CPU and Phi workflow, or at least improve the situation where the GPU has many of its advantages muted by needing to rely on a processor across an expansion bus so much.
     
  14. liolio

    liolio Aquoiboniste
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    I feel a bit underwhelmed by that chip from Intel. OK they ship something, at last, but overall it looks a bit like a sub-part effort. Intel did better than that lately.
    I mean how long it has been since Larrabee was cancelled? I would have expected more of a rework ( I haven't read much about where they were heading since the project was cancelled as a GPU).
    Something akin to IBM effort with the power a2 cores.
    As it is I don't see that product leveraging all Intel strength, it's still trying to be GPU but it seems to fails to match them on raw throughput, it is also more power hungry.
    I do get Charlie argument about coding being easier and how it translates into saving quiet some bucks, but overall I feel like the issue of chip is not trying hard enough to be a CPU if that make sense.
    I would have hope for Intel to unify its ISA as far as the SIMD are concerned and be compatible with their up coming Haswel CPU. I would have hoped transactional memory to make into the system. I think that they could have build a more proper interconnect to link chips together like IBM did with its power a2, where are the QPI links?
    Overall I feel like Intel should have design its own Power A2, better if they could as they have more transistors to play with, power a2 still use on 45nm process.
    I might be completely out of phase with the requirement of HPC or GPGPU computing but I feel they would have been better off shipping a "CPU" instead of an add-on card ( I mean mobo with 2 or 4 sockets).
    They may have trade even more raw power but it seems that power consumption is off great importance they may have come with a way better chip in that regard (like less cores, 256bit SIMD, an big L3, faster clock speed, better single thread performance). As convenience (coding) and power consumption seems to be the main bottleneck in HPC, why did they still tried to attack GPU on their strong points? (I mean perf per chips, when they have other mean to reach that kind of compute density (sustained throughput and power consumption) in a server blade even though if most likely implies having more chips per blades?

    Am I completely wrong on the matter?
     
    #1094 liolio, Nov 14, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 14, 2012
  15. AlexV

    AlexV Heteroscedasticitate
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    I think that Haswell is far more of a concern than Shi is (strictly on technical grounds), but Shi is doing its intended job of getting mind-set slices quite nicely. I don't think Intel is hugely keen on selling you a higher-cost Shi for the price it can sell you a nice much lower cost Xeon, but they needed some way to hedge against the possibility (which didn't necessarily materialise, mind you) of GPU encroachment.
     
  16. 3dilettante

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    Neat thing for comparison.

    http://www.realworldtech.com/haswell-cpu/

    Haswell's gather implementation is as was initially speculated as a microcoded loop.
    It generates a load uop per vector element, regardless of cache line adjacency.

    My earlier curiousity about which gather implementation would be more aggressive between Larrabee and Haswell appears to be satisfied.
     
  17. Triskaine

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    Why do you keep calling it Shi?
     
  18. ams

    ams
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    Yes, his analysis of supercomputing trends is spot on :) Take a look:

    http://5601-blogs-nvidia-com.voxcdn...ds/2012/06/Top500_list_2012_GPU_momentum2.png

    This is exponential growth, with no signs of slowing anytime soon. With Maxwell, this trend should continue as NVIDIA will be able to supply very high performance and energy efficient GPU's and CPU's for high performance computing.

    Regarding ease of programming with Xeon Phi vs. all other "accelerators", that is FUD to some extent. The reality is that reworking existing code to take advantage of increased parallelism can dramatically improve the performance of any supercomputing system, regardless of whether or not multi-core CPU's are used or CPU+GPU cores are used.

    http://blogs.nvidia.com/2012/04/no-free-lunch-for-intel-mic-or-gpus/

    Buddy Bland of Oak Ridge National Laboratory talked about this at SC12:

    http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/26957654
     
    #1098 ams, Nov 14, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 14, 2012
  19. dnavas

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  20. rpg.314

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    Look at the SRAM size he is promising. 256 MB / chip
     
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