Sony vs Immersion 2007: GT5 and Sony's PS3 racers may not have FF wheels support

[MasterDisaster]

reporting from a different board:

Let's all be very clear on this. Right now Force Feedback will not work at all in any wheel that you have or are currently thinking about getting for your PS3. Anything you hear about guys making theirs work by voodoo magic are completely wrong and are messing with you. While most of the current wheels like the G25 and DFP work on the PS3 they just simply won't use FF. Imersion holds the patents to the technology and Sony lost the lawsuit over this earlier this year. Microsoft lost as well when they were sued and since have paid their fines and paid licensing for the use of their patents. Sony (as a company) being who they are just won't concede that they lost and use technology (rightfully or luckily) patented first by Immersion. There was a recent survey of gamers recently that had one interesting fact. 53% of gamers who bought a PS3 had no idea the controllers would be rumbleless. Now they are finding out that stuff that does have FF or rumble won't work either.
As far as third parties being able to make controllers and games that have FF or rumble may certainly do so. It just better not be able to do so on a PS3 because it still has to be going through the PS3 console and that console legally has no right to use the rumble or FF technology. I'm sure this is being debated with the Sony and Immersion people in their battle, but sadly we just won't see FF or rumble in PS3's until Sony concedes.
So, in the end it is the people at Sony in their stubborness that have given you an inferior product to what was or is currently available in the PS2 in terms of Force Feedback. I don't know about you guys, but I play GT4 allot and with a G25 wheel now and it's just awesome. To think that GT5 will probably be a thing of beauty once it comes out in 2008 and that FF is unlikely to be around is just a clear shame and I for one am feircely disapointed. Sorry for the rant, but I'm bummed at this.

http://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showpost.php?p=2522504&postcount=19

I really think that sony have to think over the rumble&FF patents NOW and pay Immersion for their technology as Microsoft does, they put a lot of money in blu ray, hdmi, and lacks what we, gamers, care about, this makes no sense at all

 

[avaya]

If Sony are going to be so vindictive about this they should just buy Immersion, gut their assets and run them into the ground.

Certainly Sony's approach to this whole rumble issue has been very strange. Almost childish. No FF support in GT5 would be unacceptable.

 

[Bobbler]

Since when is a random person on a gran turismo forum considered a valid source of information?

Doesn't the GT:HD concept support the logitech wheels and work just fine?

If the game includes the drivers for those logitech wheels I don't see any reason why it would matter what hardware it's played on -- Logitech is licensing the rights to use the wiggles and the jiggles from Immersion. When he/she says "because it still has to be going through the PS3 console and that console legally has no right to use the rumble or FF technology" it makes it sound like he doesn't understand the situation.

I've heard information (from more reliable sources than some random forum hobo) that has said there was little reason to worry.

 

[rounin]

Seeing as how this topic has already been discussed here before and this poster offers nothing new in terms of concrete backup for his opinion, I'm not sure of the value of this thread.

The whole thread : http://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=89866

Hey man. If I'm wrong I'm wrong. I have no shame in admitting it. I'm just sharing what I've read in different forums including some of the comments made by some of the editors over at Gamespot. Just looking at the posts here guys are saying there is no FF as of now. If the guys in Japan are getting it, then bully for all of us. I just want the darn games to have it and for manufactures to stop releasing hardware (PS3's) before they're ready for mass consumption. Anyway, no matter how you cut it there seems to be allot of confusion on everything wheel related right now.
Though you've got to wonder why the F-1 game will be released with no FF support.

 

[Mmmkay]

Wait, someone on a forum somewhere makes a rant, and that qualifies as news?

Someone from Logitech commented on FF the other day:
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?postid=320730433&highlight=#post320730433

The Japenese version of GT:HD features force feedback support with the DFP. Also, Need for Speed: Carbon and Ridge Racer 7 both feature force feedback wheel support (Japan and US versions). NFS Carbon should support the G25's shifter as well, though I haven't personally been able to test it.

This does not necessarily mean that force feedback will be present in any titles going forward.

 

[MasterDisaster]

Wait, someone on a forum somewhere makes a rant, and that qualifies as news?

Someone from Logitech commented on FF the other day:
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?postid=320730433&highlight=#post320730433

this not a new site, it's a board, so this not a news (we all know about the problems of sony with immersion) it's an interesting discussion (if someone thinks otherwise, he just pass on another discussion and don't reply here, I suppose)

the whole point is if logitech pays for the hardware patent, what's about for the support in the sdk, in the drivers and in the software side?
is sony ignoring the court and immersion with in this way?
is there a real risk that immersion will win again, taking out the support to rumble and FF in the ps3 OS and SDK?
(I don't think that a game developer will ever make a driver for a device from the ground, surely this have a upport in the sdk+driver layer)

 

[jonnyp]

reporting from a different board:



http://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showpost.php?p=2522504&postcount=19

I really think that sony have to think over the rumble&FF patents NOW and pay Immersion for their technology as Microsoft does, they put a lot of money in blu ray, hdmi, and lacks what we, gamers, care about, this makes no sense at all

Rumble and FF are overrated gimmicks IMO.

 

[jonnyp]

this not a new site, it's a board, so this not a news (we all know about the problems of sony with immersion) it's an interesting discussion (if someone thinks otherwise, he just pass on another discussion and don't reply here, I suppose)

the whole point is if logitech pays for the hardware patent, what's about for the support in the sdk, in the drivers and in the software side?
is sony ignoring the court and immersion with in this way?
is there a real risk that immersion will win again, taking out the support to rumble and FF in the ps3 OS and SDK?
(I don't think that a game developer will ever make a driver for a device from the ground, surely this have a upport in the sdk+driver layer)

I doubt very much that Immersion holds every patent imaginable for how you choose to transfer the signal from the PS3 to the controller/wheel and how that controller/wheel interprets that signal, so I would think that there isn't a patent problem from a software and signal interpreting viewpoint - but then again, I'm not an expert at these things at all.

If true, I just think Sony wants to harm Immersion as much as possible by not supporting FF/rumble at all, so that no 3rd party controller manufacturer will include Immersion tech in their designs for PS3 controllers.

 

[Mmmkay]

this not a new site, it's a board, so this not a news (we all know about the problems of sony with immersion) it's an interesting discussion (if someone thinks otherwise, he just pass on another discussion and don't reply here, I suppose)

Semantics.

This is an old subject, and the only meaningful way to discuss it any further is by presenting some new evidence (news). In presenting that person's rant, you were trying [and ultimately failed] to achieve this.

 

[Nesh]

reporting from a different board:



http://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showpost.php?p=2522504&postcount=19

I really think that sony have to think over the rumble&FF patents NOW and pay Immersion for their technology as Microsoft does, they put a lot of money in blu ray, hdmi, and lacks what we, gamers, care about, this makes no sense at all

Why the PS3 doesnt have the right to use FF from peripherals that do have a license with immersion?
I think this could be bs
1)Immersion would want as much support for their technology as possible. And PS3 can be doing just that
2)Immersion didnt patent the right to use "rumble". It patent the right to use their rumble technology. The technology included in the Dual Shock2 by Sony. Not the fact that it shakes. If thats the case perhaps they should sue mixers too
3) Developers are free and have every right to exploit in their games Immersion's technology in the PS3. I fail to see why they have no right to do so since that supports immersion's products and immersion wants to encourage developers using their technology. It wasnt the developers who were sued anyways. And certaintly not sued to use immersion's products
4)So if Sony creates a new rumble technology they wont be able to use it on their PS3 as if the PS3 has no right to use Sony's technology?