Why support 1080p????

[Psychogenics]

I mean why even bother when people will most likely only have upto 1080i on their sets....I have a 30" widescreen Sony with 480p/720p/1080i support .....unless 1080p can be used on 1080i....I just don't see it being more supported than 1080i.

 

[AlphaWolf]

Well a higher standard has to start somewhere. Or are you presuming that the quality at 1080i is as good as anyone could possibly ever want?

 

[DeathKnight]

1080p can be converted to 1080i. Xbox does this with its 1080i games. This is likely what would happen with most HDTV owners using next-gen consoles. 1080p output would be a novelty that very few people could take advantage of, even a number of years from now.

 

[Ug Lee]

Well a higher standard has to start somewhere.

That's a hole in one, tiger.

 

[DeathKnight]

Standards come pretty slow in the TV and broadcast industry. Look how long it's taking the FCC to set a DTV broadcast standard. They're forcing TV manufacturers to make all TV's after a certain date (sometime in 2005 AFAIK) to include DTV tuners. TV manufacturers shouldn't have to be forced. Any kind of 1080p standard is going to be years from now. There's no 1080p broadcasts nor are there any products in a 1080p video format. The only TV technology to support 1080p natively so far is LCoS, and it's damn expensive.

Console manufacturers aren't going to be setting a 1080p standard The TV industry and FCC will when they're good and ready (lazy bunch they are), then console manufacturers will follow suit.

 

[notAFanB]

I think that the question is, with the expect memory to come in these next gen machines. why Not 1080P?

 

[PC-Engine]

1080P will start to take off when HD-DVD hits the market.

 

[rabidrabbit]

Too bad the high resolution big (over 20") displays are so damn expensive.
Current relatively low tech tv's are limiting the capabilities of game consoles and media playback devices. I think that with current rendering technologies, the console graphics are reaching their limits. There's still little room for more detailed models and textures, but at tv resolutions the limit is soon reached. More advanced lighting techniques is a step forward, but still can not compensate for higher resolution.

They can sell a high tech game console at loss because profit comes from software. Imagine if they were to somehow adopt a similar concept in video displays.
A console in the form of a Tablet PC, Sony Air Board etc... a portable (not pocketable like PSP and GBA), wireless gaming device with a built in high resolution 15" display that could be connected to a bigger (lower resolution) display if needed would be my dream come true.

 

[VNZ]

There's still little room for more detailed models and textures, but at tv resolutions the limit is soon reached. More advanced lighting techniques is a step forward, but still can not compensate for higher resolution.

Just not true. The gap between current real-time graphics and state-of-the-art offline CGI -- even on a humble non-progressive set -- is rather enormous. Look at Hollywood's latest offerings for reference, or stuff like the Onimusha 3 intro.

I'd much rather have more of everything (detail, amount of stuff going on, new lighting techiques, etc) running in 60fps at the current TV resolution next generation, than having to sacrifice either frame rate or effects to run in higher res.

 

[Farid]

I'd much rather have more of everything (detail, amount of stuff going on, new lighting techiques, etc) running in 60fps at the current TV resolution next generation, than having to sacrifice either frame rate or effects to run in higher res.

I'll go for that too!
3D in realtime is nowhere near (and won't be near next gen) to 1)High Quality CG 2)Reality.
If they switch to a "full" support of high resolution that would mean that the games are created from ground up with high rez in mind, and therefore we are going to get faster to a point of diminishing returns, not because of the technologie but because of the resolution.

I want my Final Fantasy CG in realtime.
After that we can switch to high rez.

Anyway, it might be just like this generation, which means that if one of the 3 consoles is really better than the others, some "multi platforms" games will end up being 1080i/p compliant on that console.

 

[rabidrabbit]

There's still little room for more detailed models and textures, but at tv resolutions the limit is soon reached. More advanced lighting techniques is a step forward, but still can not compensate for higher resolution.

Just not true. The gap between current real-time graphics and state-of-the-art offline CGI -- even on a humble non-progressive set -- is rather enormous. Look at Hollywood's latest offerings for reference, or stuff like the Onimusha 3 intro.

Yes, but still the FMV CG in games is originally rendered at a very high resolution. next gen consoles should be able to at least render internally at high rez, before downsampling to TV screen.

 

[PC-Engine]

If the next generation consoles render at 640x480, you'll still have to have really good AA which takes up fillrate so either way the GPU has to have the fillrate to do HDTV anyway

 

[rabidrabbit]

Is a really good AA even possible at natively 640 x 480, or even 800 x 600?

 

[PC-Engine]

Is a really good AA even possible at natively 640 x 480, or even 800 x 600?

Supersampling...

 

[DemoCoder]

These consoles are supposed to last from 2005/6-2011. 1080p displays are available today and will only get much cheaper by then.

If you intend to support 1080i, you need to render a full frame (1920x1080) anyway. If you render 1920x540 with no AA, you'll get artifacts.

 

[cybamerc]

DeathKnight:

> The only TV technology to support 1080p natively so far is LCoS, and
> it's damn expensive.

There are plasma, lcd and dlp panels with 1920*1080 native resolution. There are crt projectors that support 1080p.

They're all very expensive but they exist.

 

[wco81]

1080P will start to take off when HD-DVD hits the market.

Or Blue Ray.

 

[Psychogenics]

1080P will start to take off when HD-DVD hits the market.

Or Blue Ray.

I'll say Blu ray too...I like Blu-ray.

 

[zurich]

Don't forget LCoS displays.

 

[aaaaa00]

If you intend to support 1080i, you need to render a full frame (1920x1080) anyway. If you render 1920x540 with no AA, you'll get artifacts.

You could always render at 1280 x 720, and use a video scaler to upscale the size and aspect ratio. That would save you a good 50% memory and fillrate, and I bet would still look just fine on most screens.