Game Pass has been out for almost ten years, where are the results? We are speculating like Game Pass is some up and coming service, people have seen what it has to offer and Xbox continues to decline.I think you guys are dead wrong about that.
Xbox Business Update Podcast | Xbox Everywhere Direction Discussion
- Thread starter iroboto
- Start date
There are over 1000 games that are Play Anywhere. Most of Xbox's first party output, of course, but also plenty of third parties, including formally Playstation exclusive titles like Death Stranding, No Man's Sky, Firewatch and Stray.
Doesn't Xbox achieve about 2/3 Playstation's revenue with less than 1/2 the console install base?
Could be, or we could be right!!I think you guys are dead wrong about that.
I was surprised to see Death Stranding but this doesn't really change my take, this is mostly MS games. 'Over 1000 games' might as well be zero lol.
I have no idea, I'm talking about how many people are buying Xbox hardware. People in this thread keep saying GP is going to spur next gen Xbox adoption and I just don't see it, it didn't work this gen (even with those crazy PS5 shortages), why would it work next gen with an Xbox PC?
There have only been about 100 Xbox Games Studios game released since Xbox One launched in 2013. There are 10x more games than Microsoft has released. There are over 1000 more games supported than on Playstation and Switch combined. Since 2020, at least 5 games that are Play Anywhere have been nominated for GOTY at The Game Awards.
Johnny Awesome
Veteran
The GamePass of April 2025 is not the GamePass of old. 
I believe that most people are entrenched into their ecosystems. It's not that I think PS users will be leaving for Xbox in droves, but rather that GamePass is good enough now that the 30+ million GP users want new Xbox hardware for GP regardless of whether or not MS puts games out on PS. They'll have some slow growth on top of that from multi-console owners and new gamers.
I posit that MS knows that GP isn't for everyone, but doesn't really care if the non-GP users buy an Xbox or not. I realize this upsets some non-GP current Xbox owners and those people will probably go PC or PS next gen, but MS doesn't really care about that anymore. They aren't going to lose money on hardware selling to those low revenue gamers and they rake in the revenue on GP.
Here's a thought experiment with made up, but educated guess type numbers:
Imagine you have a non-GP Xbox owner
MS lost about $200 to acquire that customer (according to numbers people use around here)
This non-GP owner doesn't play large numbers of games (that's why no GP sub)
Let's assume that this owner buys 1.5 games per year (attach rate of 10 over a generation, pretty standard) and half of these are 1st party games
So MS gets $60 * 5 and $20 * 5 revenue from that owner = $400 per generation
So net revenue is $200
GP user = $20 * 12 * 7 = $1680 - $200 = $1480 net revenue per generation
It's not even close.
Now imagine that non-GP Xbox owner buys a PS instead next generation and MS only sells 2 games to that user for $120 net revenue, but that MS sells at least one game on average to 5 times as many PS owners because they went multiplatform. So effectively another $300 in revenue for a total of $420. They're actually better off and I think I'm being pretty conservative in my estimates as I'm not even counting that GP users still buy games.
TLDR: MS doesn't make much money from a non-GP Xbox owner. Better to sell to a much wider audience on PS, PC, mobile, cloud etc... than stick to walled gardens. GP owners provide huge revenue, thus new Xbox hardware is still on the way to capture that revenue.
I believe that most people are entrenched into their ecosystems. It's not that I think PS users will be leaving for Xbox in droves, but rather that GamePass is good enough now that the 30+ million GP users want new Xbox hardware for GP regardless of whether or not MS puts games out on PS. They'll have some slow growth on top of that from multi-console owners and new gamers.
I posit that MS knows that GP isn't for everyone, but doesn't really care if the non-GP users buy an Xbox or not. I realize this upsets some non-GP current Xbox owners and those people will probably go PC or PS next gen, but MS doesn't really care about that anymore. They aren't going to lose money on hardware selling to those low revenue gamers and they rake in the revenue on GP.
Here's a thought experiment with made up, but educated guess type numbers:
Imagine you have a non-GP Xbox owner
MS lost about $200 to acquire that customer (according to numbers people use around here)
This non-GP owner doesn't play large numbers of games (that's why no GP sub)
Let's assume that this owner buys 1.5 games per year (attach rate of 10 over a generation, pretty standard) and half of these are 1st party games
So MS gets $60 * 5 and $20 * 5 revenue from that owner = $400 per generation
So net revenue is $200
GP user = $20 * 12 * 7 = $1680 - $200 = $1480 net revenue per generation
It's not even close.
Now imagine that non-GP Xbox owner buys a PS instead next generation and MS only sells 2 games to that user for $120 net revenue, but that MS sells at least one game on average to 5 times as many PS owners because they went multiplatform. So effectively another $300 in revenue for a total of $420. They're actually better off and I think I'm being pretty conservative in my estimates as I'm not even counting that GP users still buy games.
TLDR: MS doesn't make much money from a non-GP Xbox owner. Better to sell to a much wider audience on PS, PC, mobile, cloud etc... than stick to walled gardens. GP owners provide huge revenue, thus new Xbox hardware is still on the way to capture that revenue.
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As far as user acquisition goes, not much is changing.The GamePass of April 2025 is not the GamePass of old.
https://bsky.app/profile/matpiscatella.bsky.social/post/3lnsxkebdjk24
Johnny Awesome
Veteran
He lives in a world where 12% growth is flat. I live in a world where 12% growth is doubling subscriptions every 6 years. So what this says is if MS continues the trend that GP subs will be 70 million by 2030 !
It's funny to see that one or two members come to the XBOX topic just to somehow always praise their another own platform, even ignoring the clearly significant Xbox financial reports and the resulting quarterly financial successes. After a certain level, this is nothing more than a fanboy's self-affirmation that he made the right decision and doesn't want to acknowledge anything other than his own product from another company.
Can you add some real value to the forum topic, without ignoring real data/official information or just printing the yada-yada of another platform you own in a foolish way?
Some people could think about this.
Can you add some real value to the forum topic, without ignoring real data/official information or just printing the yada-yada of another platform you own in a foolish way?
Some people could think about this.
‘1000 games’ means nothing. It sounds like maybe 5 at best are worth mentioning.
Linear interpolation, a known good way to predict future sales!
You calling people fanboys is wild lol. I don’t even own a PlayStation. In fact, for most of my life I was an Xbox user.
You guys can cite whatever esoteric data you want, the fact is Xbox continues to shrink every generation. Game Pass didn’t do much to stop this.
This thread is discussing the Xbox direction for the future. If we want to ignore data and just discuss how great Game pass is then it should be called something else.
Johnny Awesome
Veteran
And yet people are posting articles with wild speculation. I'm merely pointing out that it's ridiculous to call 12% GP growth in one quarter as "Low".
Xbox hardware shrinks, but Xbox grows. That's the amazing thing. GP is growing now as well. 12% apparently at the moment.
The main disconnect is that Xbox is GP more than the hardware now. The hardware supports GP, not the other way around.
If you don't care about Xbox 1st party (ie. Halo, Forza, Gears, Doom, Bethesda RPGs, Call of Duty, Diablo, Fable etc...) then you were pretty useless to MS anyway. If all you do is buy 10 3rd party games then they don't even make money off you on their hardware. If you don't care enough about those to get GP then go ahead and get a PS. MS will gladly sell you Indiana Jones, Forza Horizon 5, Oblivion Remake and Fable for $60-70 a pop ($40-$50 for them) and get their $200 that way without taking a loss on hardware.
Here's something interesting - it might actually be good for Sony to let GP on PS for a 30% cut. They'd likely make $500 per GP sub in a generation + their own 1st party. They'd rake it in and probably have to make a lot less games. Then I'd agree there'd be little point in Xbox hardware. Not likely to happen though.
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12% growth with COD after years of stagnation. Unless they get GTA 6 and EA FC on day one (that's not happening unless they get EA and Take Two) where are they getting the next years of growth?
They wanted to get to 100 million subscribers by 2029 as leaked during the Acti trials, and it's not going to happen. Without selling more consoles, it's impossible. But now they are deprioritizing consoles, and they seem to have no plan to stem the bleeding.
Since the first Xbox, I have never seen Xboxes missing from major physical stores in my country. Now, they don't exist anymore. Xbox is disappearing in Europe.
I like to speculate on those majors and their strategies, but with Xbox, I'm at a loss. I just have no idea why they are not pushing consoles anymore.
My grandma knows what a iphone or a playstation is, but she will never know what a game pass is. That's because Microsoft seems to think that success just arrives if you try hard enough, and not because you spent millions of tv ads. Never seen a game pass tv ad in all those years.
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So… Sega. This trend just means Xbox hardware ceases to exist, not some hybrid Xbox PC thing. They’d just be a publisher.
Tell me you didn't look at the list without telling me you didn't look at the list. "Over 1000 games" is what Microsoft is advertising. It's actually 1225 games. Only 203 games on the list are on Gamepass, so there are over 1000 games not on Gamepass that you get the PC and Xbox versions with a single purchase, along with synced progression and achievements. At best 5 worth mentioning? At least 5 of them were GOTY contenders in the last 5 years. Indiana Jones and Clair Obscure are early contenders for this year. Going back to 2015, there are at least another 5 GOTY contenders. So there are at least 12 worth mentioning.
Johnny Awesome
Veteran
35 million users in a few years is actually really good.
They likely can't make 100 million by 2029, but 60 million is within reach.
That's because MS doesn't make any money from non-GP users.
The answer is in this thread.
Who cares about Grandma? Other than Nintendo, most consoles are targeted at 35 year old guys. That's one of the problems for Sony & MS these days. The kids don't care.
Xbox IS successful. The problem is your measurement criterion - number of units sold. If I'm right Sony has to sell twice as many units as MS to make the same money right now. I realize that they are, but they need to.
Johnny Awesome
Veteran
Not at all. Why? Sega didn't have GP.
Xbox has been "doomed" for 24 years. The only thing doomed about Xbox is that they own Doom now and it will be Day One on GamePass in two weeks.
Source?
51 Significant Video Game Demographic Statistics: 2024 Data on Age & Gender - Financesonline.com
This compilation of video game demographics statistics will give you a glimpse of the profile of a typical gamer today. From an overview of the number of gamers worldwide to the age, gender, economic status, and more about today’s gamers, those in the gaming industry can better know the audience...
financesonline.com
"77% of active console players belong to Gen Alpha and Gen Z. They are aged between 10 to 22 years old"
Johnny Awesome
Veteran
Irrelevant. Not console gamers. That data is for ALL gamers. I absolutely agree that young people matter for overall gaming. That's why Xbox wants to be on so many devices.
It used to be that MS/Sony etc... could count on the fact that young teens would all buy new consoles, and they can't count on that anymore. Grandma is buying little Jimmy something else now, like a phone, tablet, Switch, or a PC.
It used to be that MS/Sony etc... could count on the fact that young teens would all buy new consoles, and they can't count on that anymore. Grandma is buying little Jimmy something else now, like a phone, tablet, Switch, or a PC.
…so 12 games. Might as well be a rounding error.
Again, I don’t see how GP changes anything here. They’re moving to being a third party publisher, with a game subscription service or not.Not at all. Why? Sega didn't have GP.
Xbox has been "doomed" for 24 years. The only thing doomed about Xbox is that they own Doom now and it will be Day One on GamePass in two weeks.
Xbox has not been doomed for 24 years, they almost won in the Xbox 360/PS3 generation. Xbox has arguably been doomed since 2013 and has been in decline since. Unless you mean ‘Xbox’ as ‘Microsoft as a games publisher’, in which case they’ll probably do fine.
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