Doom: The Dark Ages [XBSX|S, PC, PS5, XGP]
- Thread starter Scott_Arm
- Start date
cheapchips
Veteran
It's a storage issue as much as anything, even though Nanite is relatively storage efficient. Any expansive game turns to pyramids up close!
The RoH developers talked about what a huge help Nanite tesselation is for enabling detail. There's a performance overhead there of course.
How much minute detail do you need in a game where you're running at silly speeds shooting demon guts everywhere, with hundreds of projectiles coming at you from everywhere?
Sometimes you need to stop and smell the roses.
That wouldn’t apply to the other games that have introduced VG systems. It would still be noticeable here too though. There is going to be a fair amount if down time between battles as well as exploring.
Do you have a link to their paper/talk?
I wonder what the size on disk would be for a standard 8-10 hour game with the geometric detail of Lumen in the Land of Nanite.
cheapchips
Veteran
Might have been this one, but not sure. Edit: it wasn't the one I was thinking of - there's one with an artist on the game talking about asset size.
You can argue for Robocop having that level of ultra detail you're after, especially in the junkyard bit.
This looks amazing to me.
I really wish obsidian and the other rpg studios in MS had rallied behind id tech for future RPG games. This could make a beautiful and performant rpg world.
If the game play holds up this might be my game of the year
RPGS are quite a bit of a different monster. You also don't want to be in a position where EA forced Bioware to go to frostbyte. It's taken them so long to release a title because that engine was specifically only designed and tooled for battlefield. And I suspect largely that is the likely the case for Doom. I think MS has made all teh right decisions so far with respect to their RPG teams, the biggest challenge for RPG studios is nailing story and content, and exploration. We don't want engine and tooling to be something they need to wrestle down as well. UE5 is well fit, and they are well experienced with it, so I would disagree that they need to move RPGs to IDTech.
I think Halo may have been an ok fit, but you also don't want an entire studio to be locked down to a proprietary engine, puts undue pressure on ID Software, and it makes it makes hiring much more difficult as now you have long periods of training requirements as well.
Look at avowed with unreal engine. Avowed was missing so much from past obsidan games that used gamebroy / creation engine. So I think if you need to build back all these systems you might as well do it on an engine you completely control. MS has what 4-5 studios making rpgs outside of the elder scrolls team. SO to me if you put them all onto id tech they can all add back in systems to make the game better.
well that game went through a refactor, so they were very tight on time. If they didn't have to redo the game over, I think we would have seen more RPG systems in there. But I don't think many games can get to the level of creation Engine. That's just too much.
The end result is the end result sadly. I will just say again that if you have 4-6 dev teams all adding in rpg systems you will quickly get the to the point of the creation engine and on id tech you also have full control over the engine instead of epic having full control
Completelu Average
Newcomer
I think it's incorrect to blame that on UE5. Avowed missed a whole lot that was in The Outer Worlds, which was a UE4 based game.
What Avowed was missing was a matter of choice and priorities within Obsidian, NOT a limitation of the game engine. I'll bet money that The Outer Worlds 2 has all that missing stuff from Avowed and then some, despite using the same game engine.
so we may have a very different perspective here on Creation engine and others. IMO, Creation engine is designed to be a simulation engine. It’s simulates the world running. Its RPG game style is open world and procedural. It’s very different from carefully crafted closed stories like BG3 and Avowed, Pillars of Eternity and so forth.
Because of how different the purpose these engines serve, I don’t think any amount of just bolting on features will ever get you to the Creation engine. I think that would require a complete branch designed for this purpose.
But isn't that what the creation engine is ? I mean it started live as the netimmerse engine back in 97 and has been used for side scrollers , mmo , guitar games and so on and so forth.
I think the legacy of it is definitely there. It’s always to easier to scale down than up in this case. There’s a reason why Bethseda won’t switch away from Creation engine despite it having major tech debt issues. Even Creation Engine 2 (Starfield) was heavily criticized for many of its lack of modern features, and I’m pretty sure we will see it used for the next Elder Scrolls.
Its not impossible, It’s just a ton of work. One would ask if it’s easier to upgrade the graphics on a game engine is easier than trying to get all of its core code over to a graphics engine. I assume the prior is more straightforward. As we saw how devastating it was to BioWare. Took them until DAV to finally realize the vision of Frostbyte being able to support RPG style games.
I mean, another parallel is to look at how long it’s taken to get Star Citizen to where it is from Crysis. And they had to completely branch to do it as well.
Last edited:
It would certainly be interesting to see how iD tech would look in a parallel universe where he stayed in gaming.
Probably not. id hired three+ Crytek top engineers when the company broke apart (they didn't want to go to Star Citizen).
Completelu Average
Newcomer
Different strokes for different folks.
I personally LOATH jumping puzzles, and nothing felt less Doom-like than having the gameplay based entirely on jumping puzzles and flying around in combat.
Not that I hate games with jumping in them in general, but in a first person shooter, a jumping puzzle is nothing but a lazy designers way of adding time to the "time to complete" column on their tick sheet, and they make absolutely no sense realistically. Like, here we are in Hell, invading this massive fortress, in Hell, and it's sealed up to stop us entering. But.... if we fall off a ledge at the right spot, shoot a green box on the other side of the chasm as we fall, then mid-air dash through a gateway that opened when you shot the green box, and grab on to a cliff, claw your way to the side, then jump on another platform that has this blue beam thing that shoots you up into the air and onto the high ledge, and congratulations, you have defeated all of the security that this hell fortress provided and just jumped your way in without firing a shot. Now pick up your action figure collectable and let's go kill some demons.
I can't tell you how much I'm glad that is gone. I quit playing Doom Eternal entirely after about the 4th or 5th time I ran onto that type of scenario, always placed right between two major combat sections so it just completely ruins the flow of the game.
Similar threads
