Xbox Business Update Podcast | Xbox Everywhere Direction Discussion

[Cyan]

Right so microsoft and Sony have diffrent strategy for staying profitable right? Where is the problem? They bought Zenimax and ABK to boost value of their services that they are profiting now from like GP.

still, not everyone is going to get the console to have games on Gamepass day 1, people might need something more.

Next Xbox attractiveness seem to come from, maybe, it being OEM but easy to use like a console, with all PC stores, and the thing I'm the most intrigued about is what Sarah Bond mentioned about forward compatibility and game preservation. Steam and GoG make a lot of money from classic games.

 

[mr magoo]

still, not everyone is going to get the console to have games on Gamepass day 1, people might need something more.

Next Xbox attractiveness seem to come from, maybe, it being OEM but easy to use like a console, with all PC stores, and the thing I'm the most intrigued about is what Sarah Bond mentioned about forward compatibility and game preservation. Steam and GoG make a lot of money from classic games.

hmm why not? Is this not enough value proposition? I mean as a GP subscriber imo is only logical for me to get next xbox. Make it fully compat with all existing XSX games and you get new console with huge game library all included in GP.
I think this is very good value proposition. Right now i have pc and xsx i will need to upgrade pc in the future (rather sooner than later), i can get new xbox and skip two generations of GPUs and buy new PC in like 3-4 years. My whole game library comes along with me with GP.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

They are not going back to making single player games. They have cancelled some GaaS titles that will be replaced by work on other GaaS titles.

What makes you think this?

 

[Nisaaru]

They've been very explicit about their support for competitors hardware since the ABK acquisition began. Anyone not seeing that part coming was putting blinders on.

I'm talking about the Xbox and its future. But as you mentioned the games moving to PS5 the message wasn't clear at all. At first it was a few games but this and that game not and every few months this erode until they reached all games.

Only because we now have a clear message doesn't erase the changing message before that

 

[see colon]

I'm talking about the Xbox and its future. But as you mentioned the games moving to PS5 the message wasn't clear at all. At first it was a few games but this and that game not and every few months this erode until they reached all games.

Only because we now have a clear message doesn't erase the changing message before that

I don't think I'm extra observant, or even really tuned into CEO speak, but the Xbox business update was basically a year ago, and Phil said

"[I have] a fundamental belief that over the next five or ten years... games that are exclusive to one piece of hardware are going to be a smaller and smaller part of the game industry," Xbox CEO Phil Spencer said.

CEO's tend to project a reality that they are trying to achieve. He also noted that future titles would be considered. Again, I don't know if he could have said it any clearer.

 

[Johnny Awesome]

Okay if that makes you happy. Unfortunately I cant play Black Myth Wukong on my Series X because of strict feature parity requirements. All Xbox had to do was let the game ship on the S in the state its in but nope, they want devs to spend extra time(without compensation) optimizing for a machine thats not really wanted by the market(Series S). Forcing certain studios that have resource constraints to work on a segmented machine. And they cant own up to it but instead get people like Jez Corden to propagate diversionary lies all while they flirt with ditching hw altogether.

I can't help it if Black Myth devs weren't good enough to get it working on S. Even Split screen co-op in BG3 is working with Patch 8 on Series S. Supposedly "impossible" because of memory constraints. Git good!

The reality is that this is just an excuse. There's nothing super special about that game tech wise. The S can handle huge open world games.

There is a fire hose of good content on GP. Black Myth is a fart in the wind at this point. While Sony's teams are struggling to get those triangles on screen, MS devs are cranking out games (on the Series S too). Obsidian will have FOUR!!! original games on Xbox (including S) before Naughty Dog even gets one out this gen. Two of which are huge RPGs.

You really wonder why MS paid extra for the Series X silicon really. But tbh they dont seem to care anymore since they could be thinking of leaving the hw business. I dont think I'll be having Xbox as my main console again tbh. Next gen it will be Sony for sure.

That sounds like the right choice for you.

 

[rntongo]

I can't help it if Black Myth devs weren't good enough to get it working on S. Even Split screen co-op in BG3 is working with Patch 8 on Series S. Supposedly "impossible" because of memory constraints. Git good!

The reality is that this is just an excuse. There's nothing super special about that game tech wise. The S can handle huge open world games.

There is a fire hose of good content on GP. Black Myth is a fart in the wind at this point. While Sony's teams are struggling to get those triangles on screen, MS devs are cranking out games (on the Series S too). Obsidian will have FOUR!!! original games on Xbox (including S) before Naughty Dog even gets one out this gen. Two of which are huge RPGs.

That sounds like the right choice for you.

It’s not that the developers aren’t “good enough.” I’m a software engineer myself, and I know firsthand how tight deadlines, unclear requirements, and limited resources can affect any project. Sometimes teams run into problems not because they lack skill, but because the scope of work or the requirements changed mid-development. That’s essentially what happened with BG3 on the Series consoles.

The Series S has significantly less RAM than the Series X, and Microsoft’s requirement for feature parity—that both consoles must include the same features—creates extra challenges. Specifically for BG3, adding split-screen co-op required memory and performance optimizations that were far more time-consuming than most people realize. It’s possible to make split-screen work on the Series S, but at what cost? Developers often have to weigh whether it’s worth spending extra resources to optimize for a weaker system that isn’t selling as well as the PS5 or Switch. When you combine the technical hurdles with real-world constraints on time, budget, and personnel, it’s easy to see why this led to delays.

Meanwhile, developing for PS5 is usually more straightforward because there’s one primary hardware configuration—no Series S equivalent to worry about. And although the Switch is weaker, Nintendo doesn’t mandate strict feature parity. This means developers can release a graphically scaled-down or otherwise limited version without having to guarantee exactly the same features, which significantly reduces the complexity of porting.

In contrast, Microsoft still insists on the same features for both the Series X and S, even though the S’s hardware doesn’t fully support what many developers consider next-gen standards. That’s where we see potential compromises: studios may remove or reduce certain features just to ensure the game can run on the S. This inevitably impacts the overall vision for the game and can tarnish the perceived value of the more powerful Series X, which is being held back by the requirement to maintain parity with the weaker hardware.

All these factors—limited time, budget, hardware constraints, and mandated parity—add up to real challenges for developers. It’s not a question of skill or effort; it’s a question of balancing technical feasibility with business realities.

I hope you understand this.

 

[Johnny Awesome]

Meh. Pretty much every other dev was good enough to get around the memory issues. This wouldn't even be a story if there weren't so many S haters out there. They can support 100 different PC configs, but because they hate the S all of a sudden it's a problem. Nonsense. I really think you should take a month where you don't bash the S in every thread. It's tired and a waste of time. People around here already know how you and I think about it.

The reality is that Cerny adorers love cute catchphrases like "time to triangle", while criticizing MS dev environment/policies and yet for some reason are ignoring the fact that Sony 1st party can't seem to make any new games anymore, while MS is cranking out solid games every other month. It's ridiculous.

You can keep talking about the superior "time to triangle" on PS5, while I play MS Flight Sim 2024, Indiana Jones, Ninja Gaiden Black 2 Remaster, and Avowed while waiting for South of Midnight and Doom DA soon. I'm not the one waiting for triangles. I've got more triangles than I have time to deal with.

To keep the thread on track, it seems pretty obvious that MS believe 3 things (and have more data than we do):

1. GP is profitable so they want to keep it going.
2. Xbox consoles are the most reliable way of delivering GP, so they will keep making consoles for now (but likely not at much of a loss).
3. PC, PS and Switch owners will buy games to fund it all.

That's the strategy.

 

[Charlietus]

Meh. Pretty much every other dev was good enough to get around the memory issues. This wouldn't even be a story if there weren't so many S haters out there. They can support 100 different PC configs, but because they hate the S all of a sudden it's a problem. Nonsense. I really think you should take a month where you don't bash the S in every thread. It's tired and a waste of time. People around here already know how you and I think about it.

The reality is that Cerny adorers love cute catchphrases like "time to triangle", while criticizing MS dev environment/policies and yet for some reason are ignoring the fact that Sony 1st party can't seem to make any new games anymore, while MS is cranking out solid games every other month. It's ridiculous.

You can keep talking about the superior "time to triangle" on PS5, while I play MS Flight Sim 2024, Indiana Jones, Ninja Gaiden Black 2 Remaster, and Avowed while waiting for South of Midnight and Doom DA soon. I'm not the one waiting for triangles. I've got more triangles than I have time to deal with.

To keep the thread on track, it seems pretty obvious that MS believe 3 things (and have more data than we do):

1. GP is profitable so they want to keep it going.
2. Xbox consoles are the most reliable way of delivering GP, so they will keep making consoles for now (but likely not at much of a loss).
3. PC, PS and Switch owners will buy games to fund it all.

That's the strategy.

The reasons for Sony having less games are pretty simple.

•they have cancelled like 9 live service projects.

•Sony's games tend to be bigger than Microsoft, as they have some smaller projects alongside the bigger ones.

•they literally have less than half of the amount of studios compared to Microsoft.

It doesn't have anything to do with time to triangle or similar.

 

[Johnny Awesome]

So just general incompetence.

It doesn't change the fact that some people are constantly nitpicking stupid little things like 1% of devs can't bring 1% of features to the S right away due to memory limitations and yet have nothing to say about the fact that Sony can't seem to get a new game out.

When I look at the Xbox studios game line up between now and the end of 2026 and the similar Sony lineup I have to laugh at those who nitpick MS and give Sony a pass. It's ridiculous. MS is going to be putting out better games on PS than Sony will over the next few years. LOL

Of course, PS owners will be paying twice as much money to play those titles as I will.

 

[Charlietus]

So just general incompetence.

It doesn't change the fact that some people are constantly nitpicking stupid little things like 1% of devs can't bring 1% of features to the S right away due to memory limitations and yet have nothing to say about the fact that Sony can't seem to get a new game out.

I think that series s should have had 2 more GB of ram, and at the same time think that 1 game a year that has problems isn't a big deal. Not exactly something that tips the scales.

On the other hand, I see people criticizing Sony for the first party situation all the time.

 

[Johnny Awesome]

It's fine, but can we give it a rest? The S dev situation is really not a problem. Let's have a truce where we admit that:

1. It would have been nice for the S to have another 2 GB of RAM.
2. It's not a deal breaker that it didn't.

Trust me when I say that no one regrets getting an S for $250 and playing Avowed, Indie and Ninja GB2 on GP for $30 over the last couple months. It's an amazing value proposition. About 15 million people have an S and soon all of these S versions will be easily ported to a handheld and it will all make even more sense.

 

[mr magoo]

I feel sorry for devs for extra work they have to do to manage the games runs on XSS but at the same time all the optimizations they need to do directly benefits all other platforms XSX,PS5,PC.

 

[BRiT]

What makes you think this?

Harsh business realities. Making a game is equally as risky aiming for single player or for GaaS, however the payoff for a success is far higher with GaaS than single player by order of magnitudes.

 

[Johnny Awesome]

This is an area where I believe MS has an advantage with GP. If a GaaS game flops, at least it filled out the GP lineup a little.

But let's face it, MS is pretty good at GaaS with Sea of Thieves, Grounded, Fallout 76, World of Warcraft, and Overwatch. CoD is almost a GaaS game now. So is Forza Horizon series with all of the DLC that comes out.

 

[Charlietus]

This is an area where I believe MS has an advantage with GP. If a GaaS game flops, at least it filled out the GP lineup a little.

But let's face it, MS is pretty good at GaaS with Sea of Thieves, Grounded, Fallout 76, World of Warcraft, and Overwatch. CoD is almost a GaaS game now. So is Forza Horizon series with all of the DLC that comes out.

Aside from sea of thieves, all the others have been acquired and they had no involvement in the creation of them. Nobody is good at creating new GaaS games, it's pretty much just luck.

 

[cheapchips]

SoT and Fallout 76 weren't luck. Talented teams, bungled launches and then lots of hard work to realise their proper potential.

 

[Johnny Awesome]

It's also not luck that MS bought them. It was planning.

Grounded was post-acquisition and like cheapchips said - persistence. MS had the patience for Rare to sort Sea of the Thieves out. Good management.

They don't get enough credit for recognizing that Sea of Thieves had potential, but Redfall was a bust. They made good decisions there. They haven't cancelled 9 GaaS games like Sony. Just two, as far as I know. The Blizzard survival game is the other one.

That's the other thing that GP is good for: MS doesn't have to swing for the fences every time they put out a game because it has to sell for $70 and keep you occupied for 40 hours. That's why they can make Hellblade 2 and South of Midnight to go along with the Avowed and Outworlds 2 type releases. It's also why they put out Age of Mythology or Flight Sim on console. Sony wouldn't dare do that. Too niche.

Btw, it won't surprise me if the next Xbox is at least PC compatible so that Sony can't put out PC games that don't work on Xbox consoles.

 

[Charlietus]

SoT and Fallout 76 weren't luck. Talented teams, bungled launchea and then lots of hard work to realise their proper potential.

Fallout 76 would have died the death it deserved but it was lucky enough to be called "fallout". On SoT, as I said, was one of the few cases were the rebound wasn't just luck.

 

[Cyan]

some very very important people in the history of the Xbox weigh in.

Xbox creator Seamus Blackley believes modern Xbox’s “narrative around being more powerful is not helpful today” as gaming technology plateaus

Xbox creator Seamus Blackley believes modern Xbox's "narrative around being more powerful is not helpful today” as gaming technology plateaus

Xbox creator Seamus Blackley speaks on the current marketing attempt to push the brand as the "most powerful" console available.

www.videogamer.com

Mike Ybarra who helped to create the Xbox for many years says Xbox's new cross-platform strategy is the right one and gamers need to embrace it.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1891099426900324422