Dominik D
Regular
I'm not sure how Microsoft's generally poor strategy hurts Polish market alone.
Xbox Business Update Podcast | Xbox Everywhere Direction Discussion
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Charlietus
Regular
Same situation in Italy. The console is "la play", even with Nintendo selling really well. Xbox is disappearing from physical stores.
Yes, but the new Xbox Series X version was recently presented. What is the logic in not selling it in physical stores?
Speculations that they are creating their own online stores and that's the only way we can buy Xboxes in the future could easily be true. That's the only reasonable explanation.
The original Steam Machines failed quite predictably cuz SteamOS wasn't good back then. Linux gaming still sucked quite bad, and they also didn't have a coherent strategy in terms of hardware specs or anything. Nor were Valve offering a sort of fixed spec device ala Steam Deck.
All these factors are very different nowadays.
Dont get me wrong, I dont think market is massive either, but it's exactly what is being proffered up here as Xbox's supposed future strategy.
My only point is that whatever MS/Xbox can do in this area, Valve can also do the same, and likely do it better, leveraging not just their dominance in the PC space, but also their simply much superior user interface experience. I dont like to idolize any company, but Valve are one of the closest we've ever had to a truly pro-consumer company that is largely competent and does things right, while also having the popularity to throw their weight around meaningfully.
This is pretty much spot on. Its a double whammy. But they can still remain profitable in the gaming space by redefining what it means to be an Xbox or an Xbox fan as Satya said. Xbox is now officially any hw platform that can play MS Games. I dont think people have caught onto this yet. So even if they give up on hw or their Gamestore/Services fail they will still make billions providing games for Playstation, Nintendo and Valve. Minecraft, COD, Halo, Fable, Gears,Forza,etc
That's really not XBox though. Any more than playing Sonic on PlayStation or Switch is 'Dreamcast'. Xbox was a physical box. Calling a service XBox might continue the name, but it's not the same as continuing the product line or vision. The Atari name still exists but it's not the pioneering video game company!!
I agree on that, was just looking at it from their perspective. Executives that present themselves as passionate and understanding about gaming even if that may not be the actual case. Of course to consumers its odd calling anything an Xbox but to the executives its a key part of socializing the consumer base away from the Xbox brand being a box specifically made for gaming. Its odd and it most likely will have more negative outcomes for the brand, but fundamentally MS Gaming can still maintain profitability and growth in gaming by making their games available on multiple platforms. Thats the end goal for Satya. He doesnt care about Xbox(+the current crop of loyal Xbox fans) and to some extent the Gaming Service really.
If those two shifts(to a cloud Gaming Service OEM HW play everwhere approach) dont make as much money, they will drive gaming growth through acquisitions and making their games available on any platform. They will become a third party developer. They already have proof of how profitable this can be with the acquisition of Minecraft and now Activision. MS Office can run on your mac, windows, iOS it doesnt matter they still make money. Halo, Forza, COD, Gears, etc being on Playstation and Nintendo only makes them more money.
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true that. Steam Deck is but a console, however it has the possibilities of a PC if you know how.... That's an important detail. Look at what the community did for the Steam Deck, building apps and new stuff.
Imho, that's an example of what a console should be these days. We could argue that consoles are PCs too if we consider they are computers, which they are deep down, but well, you know what I mean.
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"The walled garden" worked when consoles had special hardware that required special API's.
Now they are using PC CPU's with PC APU's (even if they try and claim "special" hardware).
So the "walled garden" has no justification anymore.
Besides catering for segments of their fanbase and locking people to their "platform".
I doubt consoles as we know them now will exist in 10 years, the increasing hardware costs will make sure of that.
Now they are using PC CPU's with PC APU's (even if they try and claim "special" hardware).
So the "walled garden" has no justification anymore.
Besides catering for segments of their fanbase and locking people to their "platform".
I doubt consoles as we know them now will exist in 10 years, the increasing hardware costs will make sure of that.
you can clearly see that with the boom of "Mini" everything consoles, which are just computers running an emulator.
The Astro City Mini by Sega -some kind of arcade machine-, the Turbografx Mini (PC Engine mini), Sega Megadrive Mini 2, Commodore 64 mini, the Spectrum mini, the Amiga 500 Mini, Neo Geo Mini, Nintendo Classic Mini, Super Nintendo Classic Mini, Playstatin Classic Mini, Game Gear Micro, Game Boy Mini, Sega Mega Drive Mini (not the Megadrive 2 version but the Megadrive 1), and some others.
I tried playing some games via WinUAE (Windows Ultimate Amiga Emulator) but I stopped quickly.
My memory of how the games looked was very tainted contra the reality.
I simply could not enjoy the games, they were too ugly for my brain to overcome.
Memory has a way of making us remembering things graphically better then they really were, lesson learned.
My memory of how the games looked was very tainted contra the reality.
I simply could not enjoy the games, they were too ugly for my brain to overcome.
Memory has a way of making us remembering things graphically better then they really were, lesson learned.
got that feeling when playing the original Forza via X360 emulation at the time, and all the good memories I had about the game were gone. It looked much better on my CRT at 480p than on a LCD, plus it didn't look as nice as when I played it in 2005 when I got the OG Xbox.
A little off-topic but as a curiosity, it seems that all those mini consoles use the Z7213 Zuiki, an ARM Cortex processor that emulates the famous X68000.
Retro SFF: The X68000 Z Mini Arrives – SFF.Network
smallformfactor.net
This paragraph got my attention:
My Amiga 500 had a Motorola 68000 @ 7.16 MHzgot that feeling when playing the original Forza via X360 emulation at the time, and all the good memories I had about the game were gone. It looked much better on my CRT at 480p than on a LCD, plus it didn't look as nice as when I played it in 2005 when I got the OG Xbox.
A little off-topic but as a curiosity, it seems that all those mini consoles use the Z7213 Zuiki, an ARM Cortex processor that emulates the famous X68000.
Retro SFF: The X68000 Z Mini Arrives – SFF.Network
This paragraph got my attention:
My Amiga 1200 had a Motorola 68EC020 @ 14 MHz + Motorola 680030 @ 40MHz + 68882 @ 40Mhz
I have found memories of that CPU architechture
Thats if you're only considering it from the fact they use an instruction set thats available to PCs. Outside that you fall into other problems which is why consumers will generally continue to buy consoles. Notice Cerny chose to maintain RDNA 2.0 instruction set on the PS5 pro for compatibility with current base PS5 so they didnt have two sets of binaries? Thats still a major benefit with consoles from a Software Development perspective. You can just provide a very affordable easy to develop for machine that guarantees a consistent reliable experience for $499.
When you enter PC territory this becomes quite hard to achieve not just in terms of buying the hw components but the software tooling and developer support around to make it happen. Yes games are now available on PCs that werent in prior years in part because of the move to AMD's GPU instruction set and X86 for the CPU but thats just one small facet you're considering. Most consumers are still going to prefer buying a $499 box at the start of the gen and just play games that look just as good as any PC for 8 years. If anything, PC gaming has improved because of this not that Console gaming has become less relevant. I dont doubt consoles are here to remain for the next 20 years. Its Xbox thats possibly moving out of the space because of poor planning or desire to move out.
Xbox as hardware can still play an important role in MS's strategy. There are people who forget something and only look at the periodic sales data of the consoles, they make opinions based on this data, but practically incompletely. The most important factor is the Gamepass subscriptions, as this can be the biggest source of income for the Xbox department in the long term. In fact, most of these subscriptions are on Xbox consoles, and with higher prices. Let's take a closer look at how important all this is.
Based on the information so far, there could be 35-40 million Series X consoles on the market, and to this is added the number of those who still subscribe to Gamepass on Xbox One. Based on previous data, the percentage of GP subscribers can be around 60% on Xbox consoles, this was previously reported. At the same time, the total numbers of Gamepass are also over 30 million. Thus, if:
~ 20 million Xbox Gamepasses = 20 million x $20 x 12 = $4.80 billion per year
~ 10 million PC Gamepasses = 10 million x $12 x 12 = $1.44 billion per year
Even though these numbers are approximate, the ratio is likely to be similar. It is clear that Xbox consoles generate much more revenue from the subscriber segment than from PCs. From this, it can be concluded that the dedicated Xbox console is still important to MS, since they certainly want to keep these subscribers and of course increase these numbers. Since they can sell Gamepass for more on the console, this is even more true. They need consoles.
Based on the information so far, there could be 35-40 million Series X consoles on the market, and to this is added the number of those who still subscribe to Gamepass on Xbox One. Based on previous data, the percentage of GP subscribers can be around 60% on Xbox consoles, this was previously reported. At the same time, the total numbers of Gamepass are also over 30 million. Thus, if:
~ 20 million Xbox Gamepasses = 20 million x $20 x 12 = $4.80 billion per year
~ 10 million PC Gamepasses = 10 million x $12 x 12 = $1.44 billion per year
Even though these numbers are approximate, the ratio is likely to be similar. It is clear that Xbox consoles generate much more revenue from the subscriber segment than from PCs. From this, it can be concluded that the dedicated Xbox console is still important to MS, since they certainly want to keep these subscribers and of course increase these numbers. Since they can sell Gamepass for more on the console, this is even more true. They need consoles.
most probably consoles will exist for a long time if we include Steam Deck and the Windows based consoles. But not as we know them, that's for sure. If you told me 2 years ago that a console would launch costing 850€ I wouldn't believe it.
Could be the problem the consoles themselves or the traditional console model? I read today that Playstation is selling well, but it's not growing. I.e. in the same period of 2023, PS5 sold 1,1 million more units.
This is the comparison of active Playstation Network users from 2014 to 2024. It has been ascending and descending, but current values include games sales on PC -which require you to create a PSN account-:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/272639/number-of-registered-accounts-of-playstation-network/
Half of the PS users are on PS4, which is still very active 11 to 12 years later.
This is the yearly hardware comparison, the global one, from Vgchartz. This year PS5 sold a 20%, 25% less than expected. The curve is all the same for most consoles, there is a peak and then a slow drop, a soft curve, but PS5's curve show a very pronounced drop.
Yearly Hardware Comparisons - Global - VGChartz
Discover the best-selling games by Yearly Hardware Comparisons - Global
www.vgchartz.com
These are the platform total sales.
Platform Totals - VGChartz
VGChartz - extensive game chart coverage, including sales data, news, reviews, forums, & game database for PS5, Xbox Series, Nintendo Switch & PC
www.vgchartz.com
PS5 sits at 65 million. Achieving 120 million sales looks really really difficult.
They are making lots of money but there aren't new people joining the party.
imho, for once, their strategy might pay off by diversifying the hardware. PlayStation executives already said, that the console market isn't growing. It's logical, they have to start selling at a loss every generation and try to convince the players, oooonce again.
Even PlayStation represents less and less of Sony's income. That's why they are looking to diversify.
Consoles are based on exclusives. But their competition isn't the PC, nor handhelds, it's the forever games as @Shifty Geezer calls them. Exclusive games can't compete against those.
Then you see the people defending the exclusives tooth and nail... for what purpose? Free to Play are the games that rule the market and the new generations are the ones that acclaim them and play them. Welcome to the 21st century.
Fair points but the gen isnt yet done nor do we know how long the PS5 will be sold for after 2028. With more games coming out in the second half, a lot of consumers are going to move to the PS5 as its price comes down closer to the end of the gen and into the cross gen period 2028-2031. General headwinds related to the pandemic, chip shortage, longer SDLCs are partly to play and are not guaranteed to be mainstays moving forward.most probably consoles will exist for a long time if we include Steam Deck and the Windows based consoles. But not as we know them, that's for sure. If you told me 2 years ago that a console would launch costing 850€ I wouldn't believe it.
Could be the problem the consoles themselves or the traditional console model? I read today that Playstation is selling well, but it's not growing. I.e. in the same period of 2023, PS5 sold 1,1 million more units.
This is the comparison of active Playstation Network users from 2014 to 2024. It has been ascending and descending, but current values include games sales on PC -which require you to create a PSN account-:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/272639/number-of-registered-accounts-of-playstation-network/
Half of the PS users are on PS4, which is still very active 11 to 12 years later.
This is the yearly hardware comparison, the global one, from Vgchartz. This year PS5 sold a 20%, 25% less than expected. The curve is all the same for most consoles, there is a peak and then a slow drop, a soft curve, but PS5's curve show a very pronounced drop.
Yearly Hardware Comparisons - Global - VGChartz
Discover the best-selling games by Yearly Hardware Comparisons - Global
These are the platform total sales.
Platform Totals - VGChartz
VGChartz - extensive game chart coverage, including sales data, news, reviews, forums, & game database for PS5, Xbox Series, Nintendo Switch & PC
PS5 sits at 65 million. Achieving 120 million sales looks really really difficult.
They are making lots of money but there aren't new people joining the party.
"Price comes down closer to the end"
That's an assumption based on *past* and IMHO dead profit business plans.
Its about increasing the number of base PS5s really. Sony is continuing to aggressively cut the cost of producing the PS5s with multiple revisions. As the PS6 comes closer we're likely to see a reduction in the price of the base PS5 holding other factors constant. Just my opinion I could be wrong tbh. But Sony will make more money during the cross gen if they can sell more PS5s and get more people into their ecosystem to sell them other services and software.
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