Cappuccino
Newcomer
I’ve literally never seen this, why would windows reboot at random?
Value of consoles versus PC, post PS5Pro edition *spawn
- Thread starter Nesh
- Start date
Yea
The unfortunate problem when they tied gaming/3d hardware to neural network training. Suddenly any GPU can be used to trained ML models quickly and deployed for cash if you know what you’re doing and you have a customer willing to buy.
The big difference between consoles and PCs, PCs and PC GPUs can be used for a large number of use cases, many of which can provide return on investment and be resold as an asset for those looking to generate income with their GPUs.
Consoles are purely an expense pit, they cost less, but they have 0 chance at providing a utility of profit back to the owners, the platform owners would never allow it.
Had it not been for AI, I think the cost of GPUs would be lower; but there’s just way too much demand for them outside gaming applications now.
I think I have, most likely in the windows XP days...
I'll give him this, shader compilation stutter is in my eyes at least, very distracting.
Then again, I stopped buying games on release day since the PS4 era.
I prefer them fully patched and functional, (weirdly enough, buggy unoptimized games at launch is an actual problem, that affects both pc's and consoles).
Then again, I could brute force some of those problems away on pc...
Early on, windows 11 auto update feature was very heavy handed and will auto reboot even when you are still using the computer.
Microsoft fixed it by only allowing windows to auto reboot outside of active hours.
The problem become when the computer is still in use outside of active hours but I didn't see the pop up to cancel the auto reboot or not. Because I was taking a shit or asleep waiting for the computer to finish rendering something
You can give windows a manual 6 hour window to restart automatically, and that is enough for the vast majority of users, although in your particular case, you need to use gpedit to disable it (when a user is logged in).
For twice the price, plus the rest of the kit you need for a PC. And then it'll cost you twice as much to run with the amount of power it consumes...
davis.anthony
Veteran
And access to 100,000+ games.
but a PC does significantly more than what a console can do. You can make money off your PC, turn that PC into an asset for business. Your console will forever be a money pit, it's only role is to consume your time and money.
So while PC are costly, they are also the same GPUs that I leveraged training ML models, or some folks use them to render out movies in 4K, etc. The value difference is substantial.
If the only objective is to video game at the maximum levels with the lowest price point, I think Geforce Now offers a compelling service here for an extremely cheap price point. You can game off a 4080 power PC, for nearly 4 years straight before it adds up to the cost of a 5Pro hardware, that's not counting the cost of having to pay for PS+ Subs for that 4 years, and somewhere in that 4 years, GFN will upgrade to 5080s.
So while hardware is expensive, there are models that can be made to reduce that price point down significantly.
Mind you, I don't think that makes the 5Pro obsolete, but I just wanted to point out that as console prices continue to rise (as do PC GPUS), there are newer models to bring the price point down to reasonable levels. You're not being forced to have to buy that hardware, but you'll need a good internet connection instead, which is desirable anyway for a large majority of the people anyway.
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Twice the price? I'm not sure if you're using some kind of new fancy maths that I've not encountered before, but a 4070S is £599, which last time I checked was less than the PS5P's £699 price point... not double it.
Add in the rest of the system and you will likely end up around 50% more expensive than the Pro.
In terms of running costs perhaps we should also consider the premium you would be paying for the games on the Pro? Or the subscription fees you'll be paying for the privilege of playing online?
I think a better argument isn't simply that PC's can do more in other types of work or make money for you(though it's entirely true), but even if we limit the argument to purely gaming, PC's offer multitudes of advantages to gaming enthusiasts beyond just better graphics/framerates that add an incredible amount of value.
- Pretty much endless library of games, going back as far as you want. There's some occasional issues with various games, but for the most part, it's the KING MOTHER platform for sheer quantity and variety of games.
- You will retain your purchased library of games going forward with basically any new PC or upgrade you make.
- A large portion of your games will benefit from a new PC or upgrades you make without the games needing to be patched.
- Average pricing for games is a fair bit lower than on consoles, unless we're talking the used physical market, and even then...
- There is no inherent subscription cost to play multiplayer/online titles.
- Keyboard+mouse input is simply superior to a controller for a huge amount of games.
- And even for games that demand a controller or if you simply prefer one - you have a large variety of options at your disposable, including quite affordable ones(have fun if you ever have to replace your PS5 controller!).
- And for games that you do want/need to use a controller with, you will likely have significantly more control over input scheme and even many detailed settings with something like Steam Input.
- Local game saves allow you to keep and preserve your saves without needing to pay a subscription, and cloud saves are free.
- You can play your games on different types of devices and in different situations - TV setups, desktop setups, handheld devices.
- You have great control over your specs, even if you go pre-built. So pre-built or DIY, you have great control over your specs depending on what your priorities are. This also means a lot of options in terms of cases and form factor and aesthetics.
- Emulation. I'm gonna give this a quick response, cuz I'm not big on the pirating community, but there's some great and valid uses of emulation out there.
- Mods. It almost feels ridiculous to just note this as some single line, perceptually equal with others, cuz it's not. It's huge. In fact, I just want to give a super quick and small example I recently had of how cool it is:
I just recently replayed Days Gone on PC, originally a PS4 exclusive(which I had played on said console) and ported to PC some years ago, and also got a PS5 patch to give it dynamic 4k with 60fps. That 4k/60fps boost was big no doubt, but I'm still on an old 3570k/GTX1070 PC, so I played it at a mere 1080p/60fps. But I still think I got a better experience than any PS5 owner playing Days Gone had. Because I had keyboard+mouse, and because I installed a couple mods to increase the size of the hordes significantly and also darken the nights. Both of these had significant gameplay implications.
The base game had some pretty pathetic hordes for most of the game(taken from my PS4 playthrough):
But I turned it into this via a simple mod:
So much more terrifying to come across. And this is without the darker nights mod I also installed, cuz Days Gone has some of the most weirdly bright nights in any game I've played and it's just weird. Modded, it looks like this:
This has big gameplay impacts as well. All in all, despite playing it on a machine clearly inferior to a PS5, I still had a superior gaming experience than what anybody on PS5 had, through keyboard+mouse controls and mods. And I'll still be able to play it at 8k/120fps some time in the future if I want, without ever having to pay for a remaster or anything.
EDIT: And I do want to note I'm not some PC elitist. I like consoles still and understand they have some valid advantages that lead some people to preferring them. But I also think the argument over PS5 Pro's price and whether or not you should just 'invest in a PC instead' isn't strictly based on technical price/value comparision, but the fact that a $700-800+ console is so close to a decent PC in price that you could potentially get an ultimately much better gaming experience going with PC as a whole for not a lot more money. Aka - better value in the end. Such a proposition is a lot harder to make against a $400 PS5.
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Didn’t the 1070 release like 3 years after the actual PS4 and also it cost more than an entire PS4 with the 1TB hard drive and cables and everything?
$1400 gets you a 4080 and some change. Is that the weakest GPU that’s better than the Pro?
I'mDudditz!
Newcomer
It is in fact a false narrative to suggest the consoles are more limited on CPU side than GPU. And if your own network's analysis is any indication, Dragon's Dogma 2 appears to run just fine at 60fps with improved visual quality on the new console. Your team does a fine enough job, but you in particular can ease off of certain unfounded narratives like this.
Charlietus
Regular
This gen, if you want the best graphics there isn't much competition, PC is so far ahead technologically. But if that's not a priority, and all you care is having the easiest experience possible, consoles have never been as great.
snc
Veteran
Because it was design this way ? Sawmill horde contains 500 freakers but there are also few with 300:
- Iron Butte Horde - 300
- Chemult Station (Napalm Mission) Horde - 300
- Anarchist Mine Mission Horde - 300
- Lobert Draw Ridge Horde - 300
You clearly have terrible reading comprehension. Go back and read what I said again, especially at the end. Note where I talk about PS5, not PS4. And how my whole point was that technical capabilities aren't even the best part of PC gaming.
You cherry picked the VERY few hordes in the game that were actually big. But the game had many dozens of hordes and most were quite small, less than 100 in size. You know this quite well cuz you had to look up a sheet telling you the sizes and you purposefully omitted how the VAST majority of hordes were nowhere near as big as these. smh Also, that 'Anarchist Horde' is not even a horde you're expected to fight, you're meant to just run out the mine to escape it(though I personally like to fight it cuz it's fun). It is however one of the scariest moments in the game if you're not aware it's gonna happen(though many people will miss it cuz it's just an optional side quest)! lolBecause it was design this way ? Sawmill horde contains 500 freakers but there are also few with 300:
- Iron Butte Horde - 300
- Chemult Station (Napalm Mission) Horde - 300
- Anarchist Mine Mission Horde - 300
- Lobert Draw Ridge Horde - 300
All done on jaguar cpu, now without 3d cache cpu we are cpu limited
And at no point was I ever making any point about processing power, either. Jesus christ, I literally said I was playing on a 3570k from 2012. Literally my whole point was that I still had a superior experience than PS5 console players despite having clearly inferior hardware. All thanks to advantages from the PC platform.
I'm annoyed I have to explain this to people I know are intelligent enough to grasp it already.
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snc
Veteran
As I said it was designed this way as bigger hordes were also in game so it wasnt hw limitation, they just wanted to leave biggest one for the end of the game.
What are you talking about? I never claimed the smaller hordes were due to a hardware limitation.
You're missing my point entirely, that the experience I had with a modded Days Gone had *nothing* to do with having superior hardware specs. That PC gaming has tons of advantages and value beyond the idea of just pushing graphics/framerates higher.
I literally spelled this out quite plainly in my comments. How are you confused about this?
snc
Veteran
Ok so in that case I wrongly read your posts