digitalwanderer
Legend
Mission bloody well accomplished!
Unity and a data-oriented approach
- Thread starter Scott_Arm
- Start date
Unity games will require a runtime library. Ergo this phones home when a new game is recognised and the developer details embedded in it passed on. Then Unity will roll a D20 to get an adjustment for potential piracy, offline installs, etc. and go from there.
They'll issue a bill based solely on they estimations. How does that hold up in court? US constitution, no loss without due process of law. So they want $15,000 from me (well, a US dev!), they need to show that it's that. Of course the issue there is the cost of justice is prohibitive. Unity can lawyer up and devs can't afford to defend themselves.
Also end users will need to agree to a data collection policy. If Apple and Google block it, say, Unity games won't run?
TBH I don't think they've really thought this through.
They'll issue a bill based solely on they estimations. How does that hold up in court? US constitution, no loss without due process of law. So they want $15,000 from me (well, a US dev!), they need to show that it's that. Of course the issue there is the cost of justice is prohibitive. Unity can lawyer up and devs can't afford to defend themselves.
Also end users will need to agree to a data collection policy. If Apple and Google block it, say, Unity games won't run?
TBH I don't think they've really thought this through.
An update on understanding, as the data presented is actually misleading.
The 20 cents per install applies for Personal licenses up to $200,000. But when you get that much you need to upgrade to a Pro license minimum; Personal License is up to $200k revenue. As such no-one should be on that tier with that income. The real table should look like this:
Now the thresholds are grossing $1 million a year with 1 million installs, removing the core Indies from the payments. The vast majority of Unity users would not be affected.
The highest fee is 15 cents per install under 100,000 a month for Pro. However, the prices for Pro and Enterprise are $2000 and $3000. The $1000 difference is more than made up by a halving of a fees for small devs, so if you're going to pay a license, get the Enterprise and halve your fees. So the middle column can be ignored and the greatest fee you'd pay would be 12.5 cents per install under 100,000 and as low as one cent.
It's still a really stupid idea that does lots of harm - devs are encouraged to make games that are installed a lot to reduce cost-per-install, which means chasing the masses with tat - but it's not as egregious as first presented.
The 20 cents per install applies for Personal licenses up to $200,000. But when you get that much you need to upgrade to a Pro license minimum; Personal License is up to $200k revenue. As such no-one should be on that tier with that income. The real table should look like this:
Now the thresholds are grossing $1 million a year with 1 million installs, removing the core Indies from the payments. The vast majority of Unity users would not be affected.
The highest fee is 15 cents per install under 100,000 a month for Pro. However, the prices for Pro and Enterprise are $2000 and $3000. The $1000 difference is more than made up by a halving of a fees for small devs, so if you're going to pay a license, get the Enterprise and halve your fees. So the middle column can be ignored and the greatest fee you'd pay would be 12.5 cents per install under 100,000 and as low as one cent.
It's still a really stupid idea that does lots of harm - devs are encouraged to make games that are installed a lot to reduce cost-per-install, which means chasing the masses with tat - but it's not as egregious as first presented.
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D
Deleted member 2197
Guest
Use Unity for Game Development? Prepare to Pay a Per-Install Fee for Your Games
Game developers are understandably upset and looking to move to an alternative game engine.
They don't it's a completely unworkable system. Initially they posted WebGL and streaming were billable. Then they changed the FAQ to say these weren't counted. Unity are literally making this up as they go along.
I wonder if this is just some crazy arse PR campaign to get people talking about Unity instead of UE5?!
I wonder if this is just some crazy arse PR campaign to get people talking about Unity instead of UE5?!
D
Deleted member 2197
Guest
It's almost like a "knee jerk" reaction by Unity executives though I'm at a loss regarding the reasoning for this change. Definitely not a well thought decision.
Could this lead to a game becoming a runaway success and being delisted just before or just after reaching 200,000 installs?
What a mess. Assuming Microsoft doesn't want to pay the Unity tax, and don't think it's worth even paying the legal fees to defend themselves, this just cuts off another form of revenue for developers. In fact, it's likely a Gamepass release would generate $200k in revenue and 200k installs by itself.
I feel like Ori and Disco Elysium had Unity splash screens, and maybe Tarkov. Unreal, though, has had a marketing department for years that understood that to gain market share, high profile marketing partnerships were immensely important. I'm not sure if it was developer choice, or a lack of partnerships that never propelled Unity to a more positive mind share.
cheapchips
Veteran
Ori (s) are definitely Unity. It was in the behind the scenes DF did.
That'd be financial suicide. Buy the $3000 Enterprise license and you can continue sales up to $1 million before being charged installation fees.
Didn't Ricitiello recently tell developers of mobile games that if they didn't add microtransactions out the wazoo, that they were naive idiots?
This is old but he is advocating for straight up scumbag tactics. Get people invested in the game and them start charging them for basic functions like reloading. Of course this is aimed at children because they are even more susceptible to these kinds of things than adults. And kids play lots of videogames.
cheapchips
Veteran
His 'as a personal anaodote I've spent $5000 year to date doing just that...' is just mind boggling. He thinks everyone is a rich CEO doesn't he?
Silent_Buddha
Legend
Quality engine developers are expensive and Unity isn't bringing in as much revenue as UE. While this doesn't seem well thought out, it's them attempting to find a way to keep their engine developers.
The current rabid demand for AI developers means that companies and recruiters are offering nutso amounts for good programmers. This is putting pressure on industries which need good programmers as those programmers eye the increased salaries they could make working for a company doing AI versus their current job. So, for Unity, UE, any AAA game that still has an in house engine development team, increase how much you pay them significantly or risk them potentially leaving for a much more lucrative AI job.
Regards,
SB
Thinking some more about this, this is like taxing people on hours they work and not how much they get paid.
Also the lowest fee isn't as low as I thought as tiers are stacked. These are the best-case Enterprise costs per month up to 2 million installs:
When you hit 100k installs a month, you are being charged $150,000 a year for 1.2 million new users.
At 500k installs, you are charged $438,000 a year for 6,000,000 new users, 7.3c per user
At 1M installs, £558,000 a year for 12 million users, 4.65c per user, and
At 2M installs, £678,000 a year for 24 million users. 2.8c per user.
So the best-case payment is actually 280% higher than the listed 1 cent per user of the table. You need to get into insane numbers to approach 1 cent per install.
Also the lowest fee isn't as low as I thought as tiers are stacked. These are the best-case Enterprise costs per month up to 2 million installs:
When you hit 100k installs a month, you are being charged $150,000 a year for 1.2 million new users.
At 500k installs, you are charged $438,000 a year for 6,000,000 new users, 7.3c per user
At 1M installs, £558,000 a year for 12 million users, 4.65c per user, and
At 2M installs, £678,000 a year for 24 million users. 2.8c per user.
So the best-case payment is actually 280% higher than the listed 1 cent per user of the table. You need to get into insane numbers to approach 1 cent per install.
digitalwanderer
Legend
Not meaning to argue for Unity, but doesn't every game phone home anymore?
Silent_Buddha
Legend
A part of me is also wondering if this is aimed at [1] profiting from all the shovelware that gets released at 1-2 USD and/or [2] discouraging Unity being used for shovelware released at 1-2 USD?
Regards,
SB
Regards,
SB
