The next Evolution of Gaming Controllers [2020] *spawn*

[see colon]

I'm not sure the world agrees with your assessment of the best games on that platform. Or rather I'm certain that it does not. I know some believe Super Mario Galaxy, Super Smash Brothers, Zelda, and Metroid were more highly regarded.

So first of all, no. Wii Sports is the best ;P But in all seriousness, of the games you mentioned, only Smash can be played without motion controls on Wii. So unless you are a pirate, you can't just ignore the motion controls. Also, if the games I mentioned aren't the best, then it's Mario Kart.

Wii Sports was selling for $30 a few months ago. The demand on it its still really high, even though it's the most common Wii title.

 

[function]

I'm in two minds over the whole next gen controller thing.

On the one hand it's good to see innovation in controllers, but on the other I'm a bit jaded by just seeing more and more stuff piled on to the same basic Dual Shock / Dreamcast controller format. Current Sony and MS pads aren't awful at anything (apart from 6 button fighting games), but they aren't really great at anything either. They're basically a very similar set of tradeoffs to exactly the same set of problems. And I think that kind of limits what developers are inclined to try and do with games in some areas.

I kind of miss controllers that were really, really good something. Saturn Japanese controller is the best 2D pad ever (SNES and megadrive 6 button controllers being a close second). Wii controller is phenomenal at Wii Sports (what a fantastic game!). Mouse and KB are still unbeatable for FPS and strategy. Light guns can't be matched by anything that doesn't have that pistol feel or accurate, latency free registration. Fishing controllers are still .... fishing controllers.

I mean, current controllers can just about do everything, and do it from a comfy couch. I just haven't been excited about new controllers for about 15 years. Kinect 2 was unfairly damned IMO, but it didn't help that MS forced it on people, and made no attempt to support it aside from a few games where you fail around like an angry chimp hurling it's own turds around in a fit of frustration at poor controls.

Or maybe new controllers are great and it's just me getting old. Meh.

 

[arhra]

One area Sony would have an advantage here is the fact that devs could count on every PS5 having a Dualsense with those features present.

Except they can't rely on them being present, because they can be disabled.

Ostensibly for accessibility reasons, but there'll probably be part of the user base who have no accessibility issues but just don't like the features and disable them anyway, just like there are some people who disable traditional rumble just because they don't like it.

The adaptive triggers in particular are going to be unpopular among the competitive FPS crowd, I suspect - the kind of people who mod controllers to have short-throw trigger stops aren't going to take kindly to triggers replicating the feel of actual firearm triggers, with accurately-modeled takeup, creep, break, overtravel, and reset.

 

[thicc_gaf]

Except they can't rely on them being present, because they can be disabled.

Ostensibly for accessibility reasons, but there'll probably be part of the user base who have no accessibility issues but just don't like the features and disable them anyway, just like there are some people who disable traditional rumble just because they don't like it.

The adaptive triggers in particular are going to be unpopular among the competitive FPS crowd, I suspect - the kind of people who mod controllers to have short-throw trigger stops aren't going to take kindly to triggers replicating the feel of actual firearm triggers, with accurately-modeled takeup, creep, break, overtravel, and reset.

All of this is true, and it was something else I kept in mind when bringing it up. The point with how the FPS pro players (or just hardcore FPS competitive players in general) will take to it could be an issue tho, same I'd guess with hardcore sim-racing fans perhaps? Though I'm guessing with that audience they'd be more receptive if the triggers could simulate car functions more accurately.

I'm in two minds over the whole next gen controller thing.

On the one hand it's good to see innovation in controllers, but on the other I'm a bit jaded by just seeing more and more stuff piled on to the same basic Dual Shock / Dreamcast controller format. Current Sony and MS pads aren't awful at anything (apart from 6 button fighting games), but they aren't really great at anything either. They're basically a very similar set of tradeoffs to exactly the same set of problems. And I think that kind of limits what developers are inclined to try and do with games in some areas.

I kind of miss controllers that were really, really good something. Saturn Japanese controller is the best 2D pad ever (SNES and megadrive 6 button controllers being a close second). Wii controller is phenomenal at Wii Sports (what a fantastic game!). Mouse and KB are still unbeatable for FPS and strategy. Light guns can't be matched by anything that doesn't have that pistol feel or accurate, latency free registration. Fishing controllers are still .... fishing controllers.

I mean, current controllers can just about do everything, and do it from a comfy couch. I just haven't been excited about new controllers for about 15 years. Kinect 2 was unfairly damned IMO, but it didn't help that MS forced it on people, and made no attempt to support it aside from a few games where you fail around like an angry chimp hurling it's own turds around in a fit of frustration at poor controls.

Or maybe new controllers are great and it's just me getting old. Meh.

Honestly still don't think there's been a dpad as good as the Saturn's; that and having six face buttons (really don't know why six face buttons didn't stick around as a standard. OG Xbox Duke controller had the black & white buttons but they were clearly not main action buttons, then it just died off altogether. Regression for controllers on that front IMHO) made it a dream for fighting games.

I'm looking at the Series system controllers and their dpad looks like it could be great. Common reports say it has a clickiness to it, that it's really tactile etc. Some people seem they'd rather prefer it be mushy? Nah, hearing about it makes me think it could be really good for fighting games.

 

[London Geezer]

Except they can't rely on them being present, because they can be disabled.

Ostensibly for accessibility reasons, but there'll probably be part of the user base who have no accessibility issues but just don't like the features and disable them anyway, just like there are some people who disable traditional rumble just because they don't like it.

The adaptive triggers in particular are going to be unpopular among the competitive FPS crowd, I suspect - the kind of people who mod controllers to have short-throw trigger stops aren't going to take kindly to triggers replicating the feel of actual firearm triggers, with accurately-modeled takeup, creep, break, overtravel, and reset.

I think the main point is that games and experiences can and will be built with the new controller in mind, as the vast majority will enjoy it for what it is.

It's an additional feature that aids immersion, not a requirement without which you cannot play a game.

For that, it is correct to say that at least PS5 devs will be able to rely on the features being there, as disabling them will not stop people from playing their games, but will definitely allow the vast majority to enjoy the extra 'immersion'.

 

[Arwin]

I played GT Sport just yesterday using the motion controls for steering and it remains glorious. Much closer to the steering wheel setup I also have and real life steering in general.

It is really disappointing when a game doesn’t support something like that, and I blame Microsoft as much as the development studios for whenever they are holding us back, similar to their lack of support for VR.

But just as Sony making great games for their platform means a lot to me, so does their support for their hardware. So even if ‘just’ the PlayStation titles support these features, that is plenty for me.

However, I still want third parties to support these features as well, make no mistake about that. Right now I am just hoping that the features are just too good not to support them for the vast majority of developers.

I mean a shooter with realistic trigger action would seem a no-brainer even if perhaps some people would turn that off in multiplayer if it would slow them down in any way.

 

[hughJ]

The big takeaway for me with the buzz around dualsense is the effort Sony has obviously put into the Astrobot showcase. If the shoe were on the other foot and this were an Xbox-only feature, I'm not convinced MS would have been able to sell people on it as Sony seems to be. Going that extra mile in refinement/execution can sometimes make all the difference, and this is probably going to be one of those instances where another company/product is needed to set the benchmark for what's expected by consumers before MS is able to enter the picture.

 

[cheapchips]

The big takeaway for me with the buzz around dualsense is the effort Sony has obviously put into the Astrobot showcase. If the shoe were on the other foot and this were an Xbox-only feature, I'm not convinced MS would have been able to sell people on it as Sony seems to be. Going that extra mile in refinement/execution can sometimes make all the difference, and this is probably going to be one of those instances where another company/product is needed to set the benchmark for what's expected by consumers before MS is able to enter the picture.

It's a sign of how mature Sony's first party efforts are that they can do something like this. MS have acquired the talent, but they're not in a position to drop something like Astrobot.

Or any first part titles at all for launch...

 

[Arwin]

It is not just Sony’s presentation though, because there have been similar efforts like fir the PlayStation Camera on PS4 which had a very fun showcase in the form of Playroom, but I don’t know that great effort sold a lot of PS4 cameras.

However there were features in there being showcased that purely demonstrated the controller, and I think they correctly assumed that would have had a much better reach if that had been a pack-in with the PS4.

Playroom was the birth of Astrobot though and with how that developed into showcasing PSVR, then getting a proper VR game, and now showcasing the PS5, I think a suitable PS mascotte has finally stood up that I hope to see a lot more of in the future!

 

[goonergaz]

I played GT Sport just yesterday using the motion controls for steering and it remains glorious. Much closer to the steering wheel setup I also have and real life steering in general.

It is really disappointing when a game doesn’t support something like that, and I blame Microsoft as much as the development studios for whenever they are holding us back, similar to their lack of support for VR.

But just as Sony making great games for their platform means a lot to me, so does their support for their hardware. So even if ‘just’ the PlayStation titles support these features, that is plenty for me.

However, I still want third parties to support these features as well, make no mistake about that. Right now I am just hoping that the features are just too good not to support them for the vast majority of developers.

I mean a shooter with realistic trigger action would seem a no-brainer even if perhaps some people would turn that off in multiplayer if it would slow them down in any way.

100% And I also think that surely something as simple realistic trigger should be a simple line of code that Sony can share out (if that makes sense). Likewise they could have some defaults, like walking on wood = this effect code - I think if devs did just that it might start a ball rolling that could have devs spending time looking into what else they might do. I also think Sony need to encourage devs early on to try and gain some traction

 

[ZX81 and beyond]

My thoughts has always been that this controler is a big step forward and something that is a big deal. I may be wrong, but that is what i think.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

It is not just Sony’s presentation though, because there have been similar efforts like fir the PlayStation Camera on PS4 which had a very fun showcase in the form of Playroom, but I don’t know that great effort sold a lot of PS4 cameras.

I got one of the PS4 bundles where the camera was effectively 'free', i.e. the cost of the bundle (PS4, two games and second DualShock 4, PS4 Camera) was the same cost of buying everything apart from the camera. I wasn't fussed on the camera but free is good and I also recall Playroom being a delightfully whimsical experience and it was great that Christmas for visiting kids to go around chasing the bots in the living room.

 

[cheapchips]

I wish dpads were replace something like the mini joystick on the Neo Geo Pocket Color. I really liked that.

 

[Sycologist]

As much as I'd like to have a more advanced controller bundled with the next gen consoles, I don't think Microsoft in particular is going to bundle their Elite controller with it. They make more money selling it separately. Personally I think the Dual Sense controller is what a next gen console should be bundled with. It's packed with features and functions. This is the first time I actually want to use a SONY controller over an Xbox controller. I hated the old SONY controller's shape/ergonomics. The only thing that concerns me is battery life when enabling haptic feedback.

 

[Arwin]

Here is me getting some Mission golds today with the motion controller in de DS4 by the way. I love driving like this, with brake and acc on the triggers and shifting on the face buttons, it’s very close to driving with wheel and play seat which I also have.

I usually drive cockpit view Btw but now with newly discovered HDR I like to soak in the prettiness in this view instead.

 

[orangpelupa]

Theoretical method to make all pc games supports DS haptic rumble

Because you can send audio to DS to be translated into haptic vibrator

https://www.reddit.com/r/PS5/comments/jnp8tu

Make a small app that do low pass audio filter. Output this audio to DS.

Not as good as a properly designed haptic vibrations but should be better than the basic rumble in conventional controller.

You can simulate this by sitting on a subwoofer while play action games, shooters, Driveclub, etc

 

[Entropy]

You can simulate this by sitting on a subwoofer while play action games, shooters, Driveclub, etc

This is also a way to remedy the biggest weakness of headphone listening, the physical experience of bass. It doesn't make the neighbours happy though. And you look like a complete tool. If you do this and want to keep a shred of dignity, do it alone. In a dark room, lest you happen to see a reflection of yourself.

(Yes, I own Jecklin Floats as well. That's not me though. Picture that guy sitting on subwoofer, and you understand why I have erased all evidence. )