The Last of Us (Part) 2 [PS4]

[orangpelupa]

Just reached Seattle day 3. OMG the previous scene. The way ND put the final action on the player's finger!

It took me quite awhile to press! Then my PS4 pro crashed after that hahaha.

 

[orangpelupa]

I’ve been watching this being played for a good while and I’m glad I didn’t buy it. It is so not my thing. I think I’d rather play a Twilight game than this ... blech.

From watching, do you feel your involvement also get manipulated by ND?

There are scenes / levels that I'm not sure translate well into a non interactive experience.

 

[Arwin]

I haven’t gotten that far. It’s the narrative tone, the zombies (there is real anguish in them that makes me feel sorry for them) etc. And I hate zombies as opponents anyway but it also feels silly that humans fight each other in such a context. That combined with the psychological depth of a bunch of teens in a Twilight or final destination or whatever movie really puts me off. I wouldn’t even care if Naughty Dig wasn’t my favorite developer and I greatly admire their work. But I really don’t like this franchise and I am so surprised so many people rate this game so highly.

 

[orangpelupa]

You are on point, as the story does follows kids. the adults that fails to "contain" the kids. Also that the story goes to meet the extremist groups.

For some reason now this makes me remembers... Daybreak? That comedy zombie series where the teacher became the big zombie boss.

 

[London Geezer]

But I really don’t like this franchise and I am so surprised so many people rate this game so highly.

Different people like different things!

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Done with it. Gameplay was great, and so were the graphics and presentation. Story telling is again very competent, but some of ND tricks are starting to become too predictable IMO.

We finished it this in the early hours of the morning. It was about 11pm and the narrative seemed to have concluded so we decided to press on, but no, there was more to go. I agree with much of what you said.

Spoiler

We both liked the story but we are mystified to why the story was held in such high regard and how many people who having competed the game who said they were "still processing it".

In The Last of Us Joel is saves Ellie which requires killing a bunch of Fireflies. In the second game, some ex-Fireflies hunt down Joel for that and kill him and Ellie is motivated to revenge that murder and the second game tells story from the perspectives of both sides. In her pursuit of revenge Ellie loses people she loved. Putting your friends at risk over your own pursuits was the central theme of Uncharted 3. It seems pretty straight forward.

A bit like at the end of The Last of Us where you never really know if Ellie believe Joel, you don't know why Ellie spares Abby having travelled 1,000 fucking miles from Wyoming to Santa Barbara, having already undertaken a 1,800 mile round trip to and from Seattle. I'm sure folks will have their take on it.

Writing and characterisation was stellar but I felt some bits not central to the main plot were unnecessary, like Ellie and Dina's interaction with Seth at the dance. I also felt you could have dispensed with the whole Epilogue - you've just spent 25 hours killing infected and humans and now you're just going to toss in a new faction? And now the two playable characters fight each other? For what felt like HOURS? Ok. I would have been really happy if the Epilogue had been a cutscene with Abby reaching Santa Barbara and touching base with Firefly HQ. Cut to black..

I liked playing as Abby more than Ellie, who is a known quantity with a simple motivation but Abby was new and exciting just like when you take on the mantle of Joel and you've only had a brief flashback to something years early, that's all the backstory you get so it's good to see her in action and her interactions with friends as her character gets fleshed out. And the time spent with Lev was fantastic. Playing as Abby also made clickers scary again because Ellie's unbreakable knife just cuts through them.

A few bits felt uninspired; the zebra scene felt like it was inserted because people loved the giraffes in the original game and a repeat of the Ellie/David diner scene but now with Ellie and Abby felt a lazy. The only reason I'm calling out the negatives is because there are so few and they otherwise stood out for me from an otherwise outstanding game and that's great when I can only pull a few things that I didn't like.

I wouldn't be averse to a The Last of Us Part III. With Abby.

 

[London Geezer]

We finished it this in the early hours of the morning. It was about 11pm and the narrative seemed to have concluded so we decided to press on, but no, there was more to go. I agree with much of what you said.

Spoiler

We both liked the story but we are mystified to why the story was held in such high regard and how many people who having competed the game who said they were "still processing it".

In The Last of Us Joel is saves Ellie which requires killing a bunch of Fireflies. In the second game, some ex-Fireflies hunt down Joel for that and kill him and Ellie is motivated to revenge that murder and the second game tells story from the perspectives of both sides. In her pursuit of revenge Ellie loses people she loved. Putting your friends at risk over your own pursuits was the central theme of Uncharted 3. It seems pretty straight forward.

A bit like at the end of The Last of Us where you never really know if Ellie believe Joel, you don't know why Ellie spares Abby having travelled 1,000 fucking miles from Wyoming to Santa Barbara, having already undertaken a 1,800 mile round trip to and from Seattle. I'm sure folks will have their take on it.

Writing and characterisation was stellar but I felt some bits not central to the main plot were unnecessary, like Ellie and Dina's interaction with Seth at the dance. I also felt you could have dispensed with the whole Epilogue - you've just spent 25 hours killing infected and humans and now you're just going to toss in a new faction? And now the two playable characters fight each other? For what felt like HOURS? Ok. I would have been really happy if the Epilogue had been a cutscene with Abby reaching Santa Barbara and touching base with Firefly HQ. Cut to black..

I liked playing as Abby more than Ellie, who is a known quantity with a simple motivation but Abby was new and exciting just like when you take on the mantle of Joel and you've only had a brief flashback to something years early, that's all the backstory you get so it's good to see her in action and her interactions with friends as her character gets fleshed out. And the time spent with Lev was fantastic. Playing as Abby also made clickers scary again because Ellie's unbreakable knife just cuts through them.

A few bits felt uninspired; the zebra scene felt like it was inserted because people loved the giraffes in the original game and a repeat of the Ellie/David diner scene but now with Ellie and Abby felt a lazy. The only reason I'm calling out the negatives is because there are so few and they otherwise stood out for me from an otherwise outstanding game and that's great when I can only pull a few things that I didn't like.

I wouldn't be averse to a The Last of Us Part III. With Abby.

Well I think a Part 3 is probably why some things weren’t cut from Part 2, which is a bit annoying since that makes Part 2 feel a bit bloated and even a bit too long with things that should have been cut.

 

[DieH@rd]

I'm close to the end. What a ride.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Well I think a Part 3 is probably why some things weren’t cut from Part 2, which is a bit annoying since that makes Part 2 feel a bit bloated and even a bit too long with things that should have been cut.

Yup. I had the same complaint of Days Gone. Nobody likes to spend time and effort creating something then cutting it but that's the role of an editor/director. It's kind of weird that after Uncharted 4, which people said was too long and had pacing issues, that they made another game the is also very long and includes inconsequential narratives that aren't central to, or progressing, the story.

But I still feel like I'm nitpicking!

 

[orangpelupa]

Got to the flashback scene with the doctor

Spoiler: The doctor

What a quack. Poor fireflies being deceived by this quack doctor.

Or maybe it's like the plot in a post apocalyptic Manga I forgot the title. at first the doctor just help things around, but the fireflies took him too high, overestimated him, overly relied to him.

The doctor explained to them that he is just general doctor / resident / etc. But the populace don't believe him / thinking he's just being humble and keeps regarding him as a doctor with crazy knowledge.

Then he starts living the lie

 

[Unknown Soldier]

That clever little last preachy moment with the guitar did not need that whole tacked-on chapter to materialize. The physical violence does get way more gratuitous than it needed.

Are you saying that the last bit didn't need to happen or which part of the chapter are you having issues with?

Don't read the spoiler if you haven't finished the game.

Spoiler

You do realise how much she has now lost, don't you?

First thing, the farm looks like the same when you first see it so you are kinda expecting(although not definitely) to see Dina there waiting. Then the guitar scene was awesome. The fact that Joel showed her to play the guitar and she enjoyed playing it since there are the scene's in the game when she plays it but now can't is a slap in the face.

So that whole last 15-20 minutes was awesome I thought. The fight, daunting as it was, the resulting outcome and then getting home and losing even more.

She lost out big time. You have to feel sorry for her but you also know she kind of deserves what she sowed i.e. like Joel deserved what he sowed.

Spoiler: Spoiler on ending opinion

I have to thank Naughty Dog for completing their story, no matter how bad most people think it is. You just know other developers would have taken the easy route and made everything end in a good way. Thank you ND for not taking that easy route.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

I wouldn't be averse to a The Last of Us Part III. With Abby.

I wouldn't be averse to have a small DLC like Left Behind and have Abby's father as the main character to get his perspective no what happens before Joel and Ellie pitch up.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Spoiler: Spoiler on ending opinion

I have to thank Naughty Dog for completing their story, no matter how bad most people think it is. You just know other developers would have taken the easy route and made everything end in a good way. Thank you ND for not taking that easy route.

Spoiler

Looking back, plenty of other developers have killed a protagonist either as an unavoidable part of the narrative or as consequence of the player's choices: Detroit: Become Human, God of War II, Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2, Red Dead Redemption 1 and 2, Halo Reach, Life is Strange 2, Resistance 2, Mass Effect 3, Shadow of the Colossus, Fallout 3, L.A. Noire, Bioshock Infinite, Telltale's The Walking Dead, GTA V, The Force Unleashed - not to mention games that killed beloved characters from earlier entries in the franchise.

Many of these games do not have a happy ending, just a less terrible ending.

This is a great game but let's not over-credit Naughty Dog for doing something usual, this particular aspect is a well-trodden path in some of gaming's biggest franchises. These days I'm almost surprised when I play a narrative-heavy game and this doesn't happen!

Similarly..

Spoiler

Showing a narrative from two sides. I remember playing Half-Life, and the DLC Opposing Force which told the same story from the deploying military forces perspective where'd you encounter Gordon Freemen's playing his playthrough, then the DLC Blue Shift which told the story from the third perspective of Black Mesa's security team in the middle.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Spoiler

Many of these games do not have a happy ending, just a less terrible ending.

This is a great game but let's not over-credit Naughty Dog for doing something usual, this particular aspect is a well-trodden path in some of gaming's biggest franchises. These days I'm almost surprised when I play a narrative-heavy game and this doesn't happen!

Spoiler

Some even had an alternative ending which imo doesn't count. ND could easily have made an alternative ending for the first as they could have for the second to appease some of the masses. They didn't.

Alanah Pearce did a talk with 4 journos about the game and there was a point where she said, "They could have ended the game at this point when Ellie was content with Dina and the little boy. The game could have ended there." Also she went on to say, "Naughty Dog could have made an alternate ending with an option to end the game there or allow people to continue to it's final end that we got."

Not her exact words but you can hear it in the video.

I am opposed to having an alternate ending and again I think ND are brave to end the game as they did. Having an alternate or ending the game at the good place would have been a cop out imo.

Similarly..

Spoiler

It's always nice to know both sides of the story though isn't it.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Spoiler

Some even had an alternative ending which imo doesn't count. ND could easily have made an alternative ending for the first as they could have for the second to appease some of the masses. They didn't.

I would contest that providing options is the opposite of easy, at minimum it's twice as much work and creates more work later on. Take for example Infamous 2, the story of the sequel couldn't accommodate both possible endings of the first game so they settled on a canon ending. Mass Effect does it a little better but it's still a bit of a fudge and I disagree on dismissing these more ambitious (in the narrative sense) story-telling games.

If there were options in the first game, where's the narrative for this particular sequel? Because it only works on one particular canon ending which sucks for everybody who make a different choice. Evil Cole McGrath FTW!

[

Spoiler

It's always nice to know both sides of the story though isn't it.

Agreed, but the vast majority of narrative-driven games achieve this through story telling, including Uncharted. Naughty Dog went a different route with The Last of Us..

Spoiler

..as both games limit the telling of events strictly from what is witnessed by the playable character(s)'s perspective. Even when you're playing as Ellie early on in Part II and you're seeing the cutscene of Joel being tortured, you're aware of it because you have and (and will again) play as Abby.

There are no other cut-away events that either player character isn't party too. That's a choice by Naughty Dog, and a limiting choice. Was is it this that drove the desire to tell the story from Abby's perspective becoming such a significant part of the game? Because I feel that if they wanted, they could have done with with a but of well-timed cutscenes/interludes.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

I had been avoiding everything about this game, from trailers to reviews to forum discussions, because I really wanted to play it knowing absolutely nothing about the story. The first game is close to a historical landmark for me and I really wanted to know what would be next for Ellie and Joel. I really liked the left behind DLC too (so to anyone who thinks my issue with the game is anything LGBTQ related, fuck off).

Turns out the Internet is a bitch and you can only run away from it for so long, and I had already seen some spoilers in the titles of some reddit threads.

So today I decided to watch boogie's review of the game (with some spoilers, be warned):

From my initial intent of purchasing the game full price to play it on the PS5, throughout this review I went from:
- "maybe I'll just wait for a sale"
to
- "I really don't want to spoil my feelings for the first game by playing the second one"


Sure, the professional reviews are great, but professional videogame reviewers aren't independent. Their livelyhood is directly dependent on keeping good relations with publishers and devs.
The user reviews are giving terrible ratings to this game and I'm yet to find a game where the user reviews deceived me. Except maybe for No Man's Sky but I only bought that one after a whole bunch of free patches came out.
I'm aware of the early review-bombs but AFAIK those were removed by metacritic BTW.


Regardless, I'm seeing a lot of comparisons to Game of Thrones Season 8 and The Last Jedi. To me, those are two examples of bad storytelling because the writers put their characters acting in a way that is completely uncharacteristic to what had been presented before, breaking immersion and suspension of disbelief. Looks like subverting expectations through lazy storytelling is a theme that spilled from Hollywood to videogames.


I'm sure the game is a technical marvel, and if they give it away in PS Plus in some 5 years down the road I might want to play it eventually.
But for now, there's enough negativity in my life so I guess I'll pass this.

 

[orangpelupa]

I just realized I haven't finished TLOU left behind! Thanks everyone for mentioning left behind

 

[Unknown Soldier]

I'm sure the game is a technical marvel, and if they give it away in PS Plus in some 5 years down the road I might want to play it eventually.
But for now, there's enough negativity in my life so I guess I'll pass this.

Yeah, best pass the game then. Like I said a few pages back, the game is also not for people who have had traumatic experiences.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

I just realized I haven't finished TLOU left behind! Thanks everyone for mentioning left behind

haha, I also had forgotten that I hadn't finished it but before I replayed TLOU the weekend before TLOU2 came out, I went back and did so.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

To me, those are two examples of bad storytelling because the writers put their characters acting in a way that is completely uncharacteristic to what had been presented before, breaking immersion and suspension of disbelief. Looks like subverting expectations through lazy storytelling is a theme that spilled from Hollywood to videogames.

I think it's worth differentiating between the story and the story-telling. With good story-telling you can artfully conjure a great tale from a bad story, equally through bad story-telling you can butcher a good story. There are some people that didn't like some of the turns the story took. Having completed it, I understand why this is. But to put liken the story-telling of The Last of Us 2 to the lazy drivel was the was last few seasons of Game of Thrones and The Last Jedi, just no.

I personally felt the story was way way overblown by hyperbolic media. I was expecting some Inception-level twists and turns and rollercoaster of narrative that I'd never seen. You ain't getting that. The story itself is quite simplistic but the story-telling, the art in which Naughty Dog use to tell is, is unusual. As somebody who felt the narratives of Uncharted 3 and 4 was just absurd, that both games has serious pacing issues and outstayed their welcome, The Last of Us 2 was better in every regard. I felt it could have been a few hours shorter, it's like they wrote and ending, then wrote another one then a third. Then just put them all in.

But for now, there's enough negativity in my life so I guess I'll pass this.

Same. I don't usually do personal sharing in the forums but we have a close family member terminal with cancer with various other complications so thing's are a bit shit right now, topped with COVID-19 and work issues as well. Me and my fiancé went into TLoU2 with some trepidation but actually, it was bit of a release for us. That said, we did want to play it. If you don't then put it on the back burner.