Baseless Next Generation Rumors with no Technical Merits [post E3 2019, pre GDC 2020] [XBSX, PS5]

[JoeJ]

'Leak' from 4chan, pcgameshardware.de found it worth to mention, so... http://boards.4channel.org/v/thread/491903408/ps5-secret-information

>More major PlayStation 5 news will be unveiled at a PlayStation Meeting event for the press/media on February 5, 2020
>PlayStation Meeting will be held at the Sony Hall in NYC (Sony Hall is an indoor venue in which Sony sponsors and supplies tech inside the theatre)
>The console design, controller, UI/home screen, certain features, console specs, talk from third parties/indie publishers, as well as announcements for PS5 exclusives will be shown.
>Buzz words for the console's features include "little to no load times", "blazing fast downloads", "immersive controls", "modular installs for games, download whatever", "disc drive included", and "download the games, or stream the games as an option" (we're looking at you Stadia)
>PlayStation Now plays a vital role. You can either access games through a subscription fee or own the games out right. Sony (for a limited time) will bundle a 3-month PS Now subscription with the PS5 in select regions in an effort to promote the service to many new owners
>Remote Play is a big feature too, allowing to play your PS5 games on your smartphone, tablet, laptop or desktop. Play those game anywhere, so long there's a Wi-Fi or cellular connection. The console will act as the database for those games to be streamed wherever
>The PlayStation app on mobile gets updated for PS5, adding a new design and other features to enhance your PS5 experience
>Backwards compatiblty with all PS4 games is also a big feature. Through a new transferring features, users will easily transfer their PS4 games to the PS5 if those games are downloaded. Save data/backups for PS4 games will also be transferable
>Backwards compatibility is such a major feature, that games from all 5 PlayStation platforms (PS1, PS2, PSP, PS3 and PS4), will be compatible on PS5, making it an "ultimate PlayStation console", putting an emphasis on past and present gaming. More details about backwards compatiblty will be discussed at a later date, especially at E3
>DualSchock 4 controllers, PSVR, and other PS4 accessories will be forwards compatible on the console as well, making it easy for existing PS4 to transition to the PS5 as well
>Gran Turismo 7, MLB The Show 21, Demon Souls Remastered, Godfall and Legendz (new IP from SIE Santa Monica Studio) are some of the launch titles for the console
>Other games are teased, such as a new Horizon game, new Spider Man from Insomniac, new Crash Bandicoot game, new sci-fi IP from Naughty Dog, new IPs from SIE Japan and London Studio, Final Fantasy 16 qnd a new Resident Evil title
>PS5 will launch worldwide in October 2020. Priced at $499 USD / £449 UK / €449 EU / ¥54,999 JP
>Launching in one model only. No "pro" model at launch
>Specs to be almost on par with Xbox Series X (which will be $100 more), and more powerful than Xbox Lockhart (a console that's $100 less with 4TFlops of compute power compared to the PS5's 10TFlops)
>Press/media will go hands on with the PS5 and it's software demos after the presentation. Expect lots of news coverage that day
>Pre orders for the PS5 will go up on the same day in select regions
>Sony will return to E3 for 2020 to discuss more on the PS5 and other upcoming titles
>"IT'S TIME TO PLAY." is PlayStation's new slogan for the PS5 and the brand as a whole

 

[DJ12]

Its missing context and we dont know things for certain, but we know ballpark.

Without context we cannot learn anything from the leak. Conclusions drawn from the information can only be considered conjecture at this point.

All we know is amd were testing some chips that someone linked to Sony and Microsoft.

There was no actual proof of even the first assumption being made as it's just down to Komachi's guess work until the BC modes were uncovered and even that isn't confirmation. These could be for playstation now server farms or even a joint venture for the investigation ms and Sony are doing for xcloud.

My opinion is it probably is a ps5 chip but not related to the retail chip. It's equivalent ie the same architecture so Devs can get to work on using gnm if they wish pushed to ridiculous clocks to make up some of the power deficit expected from the final chip.

Will be interesting to find out though. The sooner the better for me.

My prediction of specs (hope this is the baseless thread Tapatalk doesn't say I. Replies)

Both consoles

4800h based zen 2 designs

Big Navi cards one with +-4 active cus available either side of 56

16gb game memory plus additional 4gb just for the is on both.

Similar clocks +- 200mhz, I expect Xbox to be higher on CPU ps5 higher on GPU.

We know both have ssds, but there is so much noise about the ps5 one it's pretty clear it's faster.

RT xbox amds implementation Sony what they worked on with AMD, probably an iteration of their own ray tracing tech from siggrapgh asia 2018.

Think these will be in the ball park for both.

Cannot wait to see what we have no information for at all, how this and the secret stuff will affect the experience.

 

[ultragpu]

Without context we cannot learn anything from the leak. Conclusions drawn from the information can only be considered conjecture at this point.

All we know is amd were testing some chips that someone linked to Sony and Microsoft.

There was no actual proof of even the first assumption being made as it's just down to Komachi's guess work until the BC modes were uncovered and even that isn't confirmation. These could be for playstation now server farms or even a joint venture for the investigation ms and Sony are doing for xcloud.

Doesn't stop both PSman and Proelite to read them like the holy bible, I wish my mind could be as easily set as theirs for next gen.

 

[AbsoluteBeginner]

Without context we cannot learn anything from the leak. Conclusions drawn from the information can only be considered conjecture at this point.

All we know is amd were testing some chips that someone linked to Sony and Microsoft.

There was no actual proof of even the first assumption being made as it's just down to Komachi's guess work until the BC modes were uncovered and even that isn't confirmation. These could be for playstation now server farms or even a joint venture for the investigation ms and Sony are doing for xcloud.

My opinion is it probably is a ps5 chip but not related to the retail chip. It's equivalent ie the same architecture so Devs can get to work on using gnm if they wish pushed to ridiculous clocks to make up some of the power deficit expected from the final chip.

Will be interesting to find out though. The sooner the better for me.

My prediction of specs (hope this is the baseless thread Tapatalk doesn't say I. Replies)

Both consoles

4800h based zen 2 designs

Big Navi cards one with +-4 active cus available either side of 56

16gb game memory plus additional 4gb just for the is on both.

Similar clocks +- 200mhz, I expect Xbox to be higher on CPU ps5 higher on GPU.

We know both have ssds, but there is so much noise about the ps5 one it's pretty clear it's faster.

RT xbox amds implementation Sony what they worked on with AMD, probably an iteration of their own ray tracing tech from siggrapgh asia 2018.

Think these will be in the ball park for both.

Cannot wait to see what we have no information for at all, how this and the secret stuff will affect the experience.

Well, this is technical forum and here, even data dumps such as AMDs one, without full context, are much better then "XYZ said..."

If people dont like to speculate on such leaks, there is a forum for that as well.

 

[Rangers]

'Leak' from 4chan, pcgameshardware.de found it worth to mention, so... http://boards.4channel.org/v/thread/491903408/ps5-secret-information

>More major PlayStation 5 news will be unveiled at a PlayStation Meeting event for the press/media on February 5, 2020
>PlayStation Meeting will be held at the Sony Hall in NYC (Sony Hall is an indoor venue in which Sony sponsors and supplies tech inside the theatre)
>The console design, controller, UI/home screen, certain features, console specs, talk from third parties/indie publishers, as well as announcements for PS5 exclusives will be shown.
>Buzz words for the console's features include "little to no load times", "blazing fast downloads", "immersive controls", "modular installs for games, download whatever", "disc drive included", and "download the games, or stream the games as an option" (we're looking at you Stadia)
>PlayStation Now plays a vital role. You can either access games through a subscription fee or own the games out right. Sony (for a limited time) will bundle a 3-month PS Now subscription with the PS5 in select regions in an effort to promote the service to many new owners
>Remote Play is a big feature too, allowing to play your PS5 games on your smartphone, tablet, laptop or desktop. Play those game anywhere, so long there's a Wi-Fi or cellular connection. The console will act as the database for those games to be streamed wherever
>The PlayStation app on mobile gets updated for PS5, adding a new design and other features to enhance your PS5 experience
>Backwards compatiblty with all PS4 games is also a big feature. Through a new transferring features, users will easily transfer their PS4 games to the PS5 if those games are downloaded. Save data/backups for PS4 games will also be transferable
>Backwards compatibility is such a major feature, that games from all 5 PlayStation platforms (PS1, PS2, PSP, PS3 and PS4), will be compatible on PS5, making it an "ultimate PlayStation console", putting an emphasis on past and present gaming. More details about backwards compatiblty will be discussed at a later date, especially at E3
>DualSchock 4 controllers, PSVR, and other PS4 accessories will be forwards compatible on the console as well, making it easy for existing PS4 to transition to the PS5 as well
>Gran Turismo 7, MLB The Show 21, Demon Souls Remastered, Godfall and Legendz (new IP from SIE Santa Monica Studio) are some of the launch titles for the console
>Other games are teased, such as a new Horizon game, new Spider Man from Insomniac, new Crash Bandicoot game, new sci-fi IP from Naughty Dog, new IPs from SIE Japan and London Studio, Final Fantasy 16 qnd a new Resident Evil title
>PS5 will launch worldwide in October 2020. Priced at $499 USD / £449 UK / €449 EU / ¥54,999 JP
>Launching in one model only. No "pro" model at launch
>Specs to be almost on par with Xbox Series X (which will be $100 more), and more powerful than Xbox Lockhart (a console that's $100 less with 4TFlops of compute power compared to the PS5's 10TFlops)
>Press/media will go hands on with the PS5 and it's software demos after the presentation. Expect lots of news coverage that day
>Pre orders for the PS5 will go up on the same day in select regions
>Sony will return to E3 for 2020 to discuss more on the PS5 and other upcoming titles
>"IT'S TIME TO PLAY." is PlayStation's new slogan for the PS5 and the brand as a whole

They're expecting XSX to be $600? I'm doubting it. $499 is more reasonable/likely IMO for XSX spec sheet. Whereas PS5 IMO might even target 399 if it's rumors are true. Which BTW, they'd probably do really well with that. Also, it's hard to get PS5 to 10TF if 36 CU's is right. Also, dont think it will launch in Oct, consoles always launch in Nov.

That and I think Osirisblack if he has any credibility put the PS5 reveal more like 2nd week of Feb (around early Jan was saying "one month, one week, and some days" until reveal.

So probably kind of a wishful thinking, collated with kind of known stuff type leak. But as always who knows.

 

[JoeJ]

Yeah, one guy knowing prices for both MS and Sony is too hard to believe already. Did not catch this.

 

[Rangers]

Definitely a weird thread and feels different to other generations. Loads of activity here (and nowhere else!) that's not really covering anything at all.

I mentioned it on Era it feels like there's more interest, among core aka Xbox/PS gamers, in next gen than past. I dont know if it's some games drought or what. Maybe Cyberpunk will help.

Switch gamers are their own thing, but it feels like Xbox/PS gamers have moved on to speculating about next gen as their pastime right now, even a year out.

I could be wrong though, I do remember last gen's thread about Xbox's possible GPU downclock was massive.

And people seem more invested in the power aspect/teraflops than before. On that podcast I mentioned they were making light of that not that long ago TF weren't a thing and now it's thrown by everybody around like candy even though many don't really have any idea what it is.

 

[Picao84]

I have to chuckle a little bit at this. This place is all kinds of intimidating. Especially from a layman's perspective. Look at some of the posts around here. I am just a hobbyist. No formal training in software at all, but more than 30 years of closely following the tech out of simple curiosity. There are posts here, in more general threads, not the narrow deep dive ones, that I have to parse out and look up terms. Even then I would freely admit that knowing the definition didn't make the post much clearer to me. No matter how nice and tolerant everyone is around here, especially in comparison to what one see's on "mainstream" forums, this place remains intimidating simply because of the knowledge the long term posters regularly present here.

I strangely heard the same thing about a football forum I frequent a while back. People didn't want to join for fear of ridicule/ lack of knowledge/ fanboism/ contamination, etc. Hell, I have several posts here over the years that included statements of apology for ignorance and thanks for tolerance. Beyond3D may have grown much over time, but to call it mainstream I think vastly underestimates the sheer intimidation of interacting here as a layman who probably belongs more on a place like resetera. I have gotten more out of keeping my mouth shut (mostly) and reading here than I have gotten from all other sources combined.

By mainstream I meant exactly that. People with not a lot of technological knowledge coming to this place. In the old times it was rare to see someone here who was not part of the industry. I'm not so different than you, although I'm an oldy here. I learned a lot here as well, especially when I wasn't yet on a technological related career.

 

[Proelite]

Doesn't stop both PSman and Proelite to read them like the holy bible, I wish my mind could be as easily set as theirs for next gen.

Well some people put their faith into Kleesus.

Also all I got from the GitHub leak was 56CUs, I already know about the 36CUs since October. My wager thread predates the GitHub leak.

 

[Picao84]

'Leak' from 4chan, pcgameshardware.de found it worth to mention, so... http://boards.4channel.org/v/thread/491903408/ps5-secret-information

>More major PlayStation 5 news will be unveiled at a PlayStation Meeting event for the press/media on February 5, 2020
>PlayStation Meeting will be held at the Sony Hall in NYC (Sony Hall is an indoor venue in which Sony sponsors and supplies tech inside the theatre)
>The console design, controller, UI/home screen, certain features, console specs, talk from third parties/indie publishers, as well as announcements for PS5 exclusives will be shown.
>Buzz words for the console's features include "little to no load times", "blazing fast downloads", "immersive controls", "modular installs for games, download whatever", "disc drive included", and "download the games, or stream the games as an option" (we're looking at you Stadia)
>PlayStation Now plays a vital role. You can either access games through a subscription fee or own the games out right. Sony (for a limited time) will bundle a 3-month PS Now subscription with the PS5 in select regions in an effort to promote the service to many new owners
>Remote Play is a big feature too, allowing to play your PS5 games on your smartphone, tablet, laptop or desktop. Play those game anywhere, so long there's a Wi-Fi or cellular connection. The console will act as the database for those games to be streamed wherever
>The PlayStation app on mobile gets updated for PS5, adding a new design and other features to enhance your PS5 experience
>Backwards compatiblty with all PS4 games is also a big feature. Through a new transferring features, users will easily transfer their PS4 games to the PS5 if those games are downloaded. Save data/backups for PS4 games will also be transferable
>Backwards compatibility is such a major feature, that games from all 5 PlayStation platforms (PS1, PS2, PSP, PS3 and PS4), will be compatible on PS5, making it an "ultimate PlayStation console", putting an emphasis on past and present gaming. More details about backwards compatiblty will be discussed at a later date, especially at E3
>DualSchock 4 controllers, PSVR, and other PS4 accessories will be forwards compatible on the console as well, making it easy for existing PS4 to transition to the PS5 as well
>Gran Turismo 7, MLB The Show 21, Demon Souls Remastered, Godfall and Legendz (new IP from SIE Santa Monica Studio) are some of the launch titles for the console
>Other games are teased, such as a new Horizon game, new Spider Man from Insomniac, new Crash Bandicoot game, new sci-fi IP from Naughty Dog, new IPs from SIE Japan and London Studio, Final Fantasy 16 qnd a new Resident Evil title
>PS5 will launch worldwide in October 2020. Priced at $499 USD / £449 UK / €449 EU / ¥54,999 JP
>Launching in one model only. No "pro" model at launch
>Specs to be almost on par with Xbox Series X (which will be $100 more), and more powerful than Xbox Lockhart (a console that's $100 less with 4TFlops of compute power compared to the PS5's 10TFlops)
>Press/media will go hands on with the PS5 and it's software demos after the presentation. Expect lots of news coverage that day
>Pre orders for the PS5 will go up on the same day in select regions
>Sony will return to E3 for 2020 to discuss more on the PS5 and other upcoming titles
>"IT'S TIME TO PLAY." is PlayStation's new slogan for the PS5 and the brand as a whole

There is one thing that signs all that as fake IMO: Final Fantasy 16. I doubt it is even in pre production at this stage, with the FFVII Remake not being complete.

 

[AbsoluteBeginner]

From Github leak macro

VBA_Macro_Settings tab

ARI-SPEC-iGPU-TestList.xlsx->Oberon_A0_Postsilicon_vs_Pre B F
ARI-SPEC-iGPU-TestList.xlsx->Oberon_A0_Postsilicon_vs_Pre B G

Basically, in tabs iGPU and iGPU295, TESTLIST (what is tested) is taken from Ariel and can be seen in B column of both of these tabs, while theoretical values can be seen in F and G columns, also from Ariel.

That could mean Ariel and Oberon are :

1) Same SOC, different revision (early / retail)
2) Same SOC, different memory modules
3) Different SOC, same iGPUs so they are doing regression testing
4) Different SOC, different iGPU (RT HW, or more CUs or whatever) so they are doing regression testing

CONFIGURATION_LIST tab

sclk(GHz)----lowerlimit 90%
2----------------upperlimit 100%
2----------------upperlimit 100%
2----------------upperlimit 100%

They might be using upper limit frequency in testing and Ariel/Oberon might not be actually clocked at 2.0GHz, but 1.8GHz.

My assumption is, Oberon is retail chip with RT hardware, while Ariel is not.

 

[Jay]

Microsoft develop APIs in close collaboration with hardware manufacturers. And for their part, hardware manufacturers will generally work, with varying degrees of effort, with API (DirectX, OpenGL, Vulkan etc) API standards bodies. You can't have the API define the workings of the hardware in a new field of technology, this is literally putting the cart before the horse.

Agree with that 100%

There is zero chance that AMD have two distinct hardware solutions for RT, one for Microsoft and one for Sony unless Sony developed (or heavily customised) AMD's stock RT solution but I would find that very difficult to believe.

Don't agree with this though.
Is it more likely that both are based on amd's default design, yea sure.
But lot more than zero possibility that one may be different or at the very least customized to varying degrees.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

You can't have the API define the workings of the hardware in a new field of technology, this is literally putting the cart before the horse.

It's figuratively putting the cart before the horse.

 

[chris1515]

There is one thing that signs all that as fake IMO: Final Fantasy 16. I doubt it is even in pre production at this stage, with the FFVII Remake not being complete.

And Sony Santa Monica Games for launch they released God War in 2018.

 

[DJ12]

Well some people put their faith into Kleesus.

Also all I got from the GitHub leak was 56CUs, I already know about the 36CUs since October. My wager thread predates the GitHub leak.

No, it predates the GitHub 'leak' becoming public knowledge. It had been on GitHub for quite sometime I believe.

 

[disco_]

I thought I ran across igpu values listing Ariel stepping results in a column next to Oberon results, including under the 2.0 GHz native category. Values like the L0 bandwidth were highly consistent with both being at 2.0 GHz.

I'm unsure what the purpose in this scenario would be to assign multiple PCI IDs to a single chip, or what would be the benefit of your second claim that multiple chips share the same PCI ID.
That there are two chip names but no significant difference between them seems unusual as well.

In terms of github, there were archived bandwidth tests for ariel which the currently tested oberon values were compared to. Ariel vaues were at a static 448. I don't recall other ariel data.
pcie ids going from 13e8 to 13f8 represent a small stepping improvement. Going from 13f8 to 13e9 would suggest a major stepping improvement.Then 13f9 was from june IIRC and the newest from november/december we still don't know, at least I don't believe we do.

Why ariel/oberon/gonzalo share pcie ids, I haven't a clue. It could have something to do with the recent finding that apisak pointed out. AMD were putting out fake/spoofed IDs.

There is one thing that signs all that as fake IMO: Final Fantasy 16. I doubt it is even in pre production at this stage, with the FFVII Remake not being complete.

Different team. I'd expect Naoki Yoshida to be in charge of ffxvi as he was in charge of turning 14 around. I doubt they're far into the project.

 

[HBRU]

My theory: The chip for 2019 PS5 was designed, but they delayed 6 more months to upgrade the CPU.

I also think that...

 

[disco_]

Its easy to figure out timeline of AMD chips that we have codename for. Looks like Sony started working on PS5 chip ~6 months before MS started theirs.

Makes sense with reports of 2/3rds of Radeon engineers being all hands on deck for Sony chip.

Seems to me work on Sony chip started around late 2017, for MS likely a bit later.

So that would mean that even if the 2019 plan was true and cancelled in 2017, sony would not have had a design in place that they'd need to scrap or rework?

My theory: The chip for 2019 PS5 was designed, but they delayed 6 more months to upgrade the CPU.

Why the CPU? Those were on target, no delays in development. NAVI is what came out a year late.

 

[AbsoluteBeginner]

In terms of github, there were archived bandwidth tests for ariel which the currently tested oberon values were compared to. Ariel vaues were at a static 448. I don't recall other ariel data.
pcie ids going from 13e8 to 13f8 represent a small stepping improvement. Going from 13f8 to 13e9 would suggest a major stepping improvement.Then 13f9 was from june IIRC and the newest from november/december we still don't know, at least I don't believe we do.

Why ariel/oberon/gonzalo share pcie ids, I haven't a clue. It could have something to do with the recent finding that apisak pointed out. AMD were putting out fake/spoofed IDs.

13E9 - January
13F8 - April
13F9 - June (Flute benchmark, now we know 13F9 is in fact Oberon A0)

 

[disco_]

13E9 - January
13F8 - April
13F9 - June (Flute benchmark, now we know 13F9 is in fact Oberon A0)

So in chronological order, 13e9>13f8>13f9?

Hmm, I thought 13e8 was the january sample.