Nintendo Switch Tech Speculation discussion

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It's not hard to figure out why there's no Tegra X2 in mobile devices.
The SoC doesn't fit smartphones and Android tablets are a dying breed, with only Samsung still making new models using their own SoCs. Windows tablets need x86 CPUs and apple tablets use their own SoCs.

It's the same story for the Tegra X1 in 2015/2016. Only Google picked it up for the Pixel C.

well it would have been great if they went with X2, probably the price difference was huge, and obviously going by 3 generations now, third party's is not a priority on nintendo list. it's just i trust eurogamer, and i know nintendo history after GC. after eurogamer source said they were pretty sure X1 will be in final hardware i know people were setting there self up for a disappointment.
 
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Tegra X2 has been finalized at least since late 2015 and it has been in production at least since mid-2016.
Full assembly for the Switch's production model reportedly started in November, but the Tegra X2 had been going into Tesla cars one month earlier. And you can bet automobile QC is a lot slower and much more demanding than it is for handheld consoles.
I agree that automotive QC is certainly very high quality. But Tesla is not exactly a high volume platform. The X2 could have been hand picked. Does not mean the X2 was available in volume (say millions).
 
No, I don't buy this.
If the final target was e.g. a Tegra X2 using only the Cortex A57 cores, there would be nothing stopping Nintendo from sending devkits with Tegra X1 and the only practical difference would be memory bandwidth and memory amount. This is hardly a showstopper for developing 1st-gen games, especially if the final hardware is coming with better specs.

You might not buy it, but out there in the real world it's what Nintendo do and it's what they did this time.

Nintendo had basically final prototypes of the Switch back in June last year at latest (even down to the cooler and battery), possibly had them earlier, and they had final silicon for many months before that. Dev kits were shipping in their tens of thousand in 1H 2016. Switch isn't a generic phone or tablet, it's a distinctive product and Nintendo will have been working on it for some time.

You might think Nintendo should work very differently - and are perfectly entitled to do so - but Nintendo will have had reasons to develop Switch the way they did and over the timescales involved.

I think it's very likely that TX2 was never even a contender for Switch.

That amount of people who buy Nintendo hardware for those reasons has been counted.
It's 13.5 million sales, and it was considered an enormous failure.
If Nintendo had lifetime projections of 13.5 million sales for the Switch, they wouldn't have launched the console at all.

You're forgetting the tens of millions of Nintendo fans who game on mobile. It's also a mistake IMO to assume that every customer that might buy a platform for Nintendo software would buy every Nintendo platform.

Anecdotally, I know people that didn't buy WiiU that were day one for Switch. Funnily enough, all of them bought Zelda - a game also available for the WiiU.

As soon as the reality of its performance capabilities settles in, Nintendo will be selling this as a handheld first and foremost. The post-3DS crowd will be their target, not Nintendo enthusiasts.
Of course, charging $300 for a 3DS replacement will also wear down the sales eventually.

I'm not sure you get to define who is a Nintendo enthusiast or not. There are plenty of 3DS owners who seem to like Nintendo plenty. And plenty of retro hipsters who wear Nintendo t-shirts and hoovered up the NES mini. And all that Pokemon go and Mario run stuff went down like a house on fire.

Nintendo have currency far beyond the people who bought the WiiU.

Tegra X2 has been finalized at least since late 2015 and it has been in production at least since mid-2016.
Full assembly for the Switch's production model reportedly started in November, but the Tegra X2 had been going into Tesla cars one month earlier. And you can bet automobile QC is a lot slower and much more demanding than it is for handheld consoles.

And yet TX2 has only just come to Nvidia's embedded systems kit. And I don't agree that the power figures prove it was a sensible choice for Switch - board TDP vs actual platform power drawn from the mains leaves lots of room for unknowns.

Tesla's cars have bigger batteries than the Switch, and won't have to run in "No Denver" mode which disables much of the TX2 platform. Teslas are also not low BOM devices that sell millions per quarter.

Even with lower clocks and Denver disabled to try and squeeze down into the Switch, I'm not sure that spending the power on a double width memory bus would have been a great choice for Nintendo. Even Snapdragon 820 isn't using a 128-bit bus.

Keeping BOM under control is critical for Nintendo.
 
If it bombs, I doubt they will keep this hybrid thing. Well, at least not selling it like a hybrid, but just like a portable console. Because that what it is imo. But they can't admit "yeaaah, we gave up about home console".
 
If it bombs, I doubt they will keep this hybrid thing. Well, at least not selling it like a hybrid, but just like a portable console. Because that what it is imo. But they can't admit "yeaaah, we gave up about home console".
I have to disagree. At least for me Switch is not a primarily portable console. Have you ever tried playing Zelda for a couple of hours in handheld mode? It's simply not comfortable. And you tend to overlook things on the small screen. It's much better on the big screen (and even better with the pro controller). But it is nice to play in bed for half an hour or being able to take it with you when you are not at home. I think this "play everywhere" is really the appeal of the Nintendo Switch.
 
I think 'play everywhere' is better served by a portable with HDMI connector. The dock is pretty superfluous seeing as it doesn't amp the power. Something like a Vita with HDMI port and support for DS4 controller, with perhaps a Surface Pro like kick-stand so you can stand it up in a nice position while connected to TV so it looks a little classier than just lying there with cables sticking out.

The true bonus of a dockable handheld was in my Grand Vision of the Future where the dock added some extra juice.

I think it also worth pointing out for future reference that, once again, the simplest, cheapest solution was the correct one. Theories of things like cunning dock-facilitated airflow or cooling systems enabling higher clocks etc just didn't happen - it's a lump of plastic with a power connector. Along with every other bit of evidence over the history of console tech predictions, hopefully discussions will remain more grounded than they can get.
 
I think 'play everywhere' is better served by a portable with HDMI connector. The dock is pretty superfluous seeing as it doesn't amp the power. Something like a Vita with HDMI port and support for DS4 controller, with perhaps a Surface Pro like kick-stand so you can stand it up in a nice position while connected to TV so it looks a little classier than just lying there with cables sticking out.

The true bonus of a dockable handheld was in my Grand Vision of the Future where the dock added some extra juice.

I think the idea of the dock may primarily have been to make the Switch "feel" more like a console - it has a permanent seat, it's secure, it's in a nice visible place, don't have to worry about covering ventilation and you don't have to plug in separate HDMI and power cables.

Almost like a way of saying you're not conceding the living room telly when you only really have half of one foot in the door.

I think it also worth pointing out for future reference that, once again, the simplest, cheapest solution was the correct one. Theories of things like cunning dock-facilitated airflow or cooling systems enabling higher clocks etc just didn't happen - it's a lump of plastic with a power connector. Along with every other bit of evidence over the history of console tech predictions, hopefully discussions will remain more grounded than they can get.

Yep. But you just know that come next console - particularly next Ninty box - that things will get ... interesting again. :D
 
I really like the internal design. I maintain my opinion that the dock is necessary for proper heat management. Any orientation other than vertical would be much less effective or would require a more expensive and larger heatsink/fan. They can guarantee it won't have any heat build up by having the heat sink at the very edge, hot outlet at the top, cold inlet at the bottom.

Based on the Delta part number, the fan is a smaller diameter than I expected, but also allows a much higher RPM if necessary, so it probably balances out. It's a BSB0405HA which have been used in ultra portable laptops for years by HP, Asus, Apple, etc...

I'm guessing they have a good margin to spin that sucker up to 8000RPM if someone uses it in very hot climates. :runaway:
 
I think the idea of the dock may primarily have been to make the Switch "feel" more like a console

Exactly, without the dock their is no "image" of the Switch as being anything more than a portable. You may not think very highly of the dock, and that a simple HDMI cable would have been sufficient, but from a marketing standpoint, it was important.

Have you ever tried playing Zelda for a couple of hours in handheld mode?

Yep, did so last night lounging on my couch, but I do understand the sentiment that a game like Zelda where play sessions can be pretty long are generally better experienced playing on the TV. Which is exactly what Nintendo was shooting for with Switch. Regardless of what you think of the performance level Switch offers as a home console, there are still games that many people will enjoy playing on the TV.

I'm enjoying my Switch on the go quite a bit, and I haven't been a portable gamer in many years. I have played Zelda during my lunch breaks this week. I will admit, I am looking forward to games like Mario Kart 8 that will offer a more pick up and play experience for these short play sessions. Its hard to do much in 20-30 minutes in Zelda, but exploring is fun just the same. Still, I plan to get Fast RMX pretty soon, and that should be a good game to play on my lunch breaks.
 
I have to disagree. At least for me Switch is not a primarily portable console. Have you ever tried playing Zelda for a couple of hours in handheld mode? It's simply not comfortable. And you tend to overlook things on the small screen. It's much better on the big screen (and even better with the pro controller). But it is nice to play in bed for half an hour or being able to take it with you when you are not at home. I think this "play everywhere" is really the appeal of the Nintendo Switch.

My point is the hardware is a joke and too expansive for a home console. Of course Zelda is better on the TV. But It look like a WiiU+, for 300bucks...

I mean, I don't care about portable thing. You can make the argument that the switch cost as much because of the nice screen and the joy-con. 2 things I don't care about. I don't need a screen for my home console, and I want a "classic" pad. And a hdd. So, It's not interesting to me. You can't buy this thing is you don't care about mobile gaming. As a "pure" home console, it's ridiculous. That's my opinion...

So, I agree that the "play everywhere" is the real appeal, so it's not a home console in my vision...
 
I mean, I don't care about portable thing. You can make the argument that the switch cost as much because of the nice screen and the joy-con. 2 things I don't care about. I don't need a screen for my home console, and I want a "classic" pad. And a hdd. So, It's not interesting to me. You can't buy this thing is you don't care about mobile gaming. As a "pure" home console, it's ridiculous. That's my opinion...
Yup. You would have to be crazy to buy a Switch if you didn't intend to use it away from a TV.
 
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My point is the hardware is a joke and too expansive for a home console. Of course Zelda is better on the TV. But It look like a WiiU+, for 300bucks...

As a home console, yes, its very much inferior to the PS4/X1 in that respect. If you bought the Switch, and aren't a huge Nintendo game fan, or into playing games portably, I question what it was that enticed you to buy a Switch to begin with. I think its kind of like comparing the capabilities of a laptop to a home PC. Dollar for dollar, the home PC will trounce the laptop, but that's not really the point is it. Switch is about the freedom to play anywhere, and of course the first party exclusives. If these aren't attractive prospects, then you going to be disappointed.
 
But it is nice to play in bed for half an hour or being able to take it with you when you are not at home.

Even better if you can pick it up and take it to the toilet with you for some quality time in the bathroom. :p I know plenty of people who currently do that with mobile phone games.

Now, I just need Nintendo to make a water-proof or at least water resistant version of the Switch so I can sit and soak in the tub while playing games on it after a hard day's work.

Regards,
SB
 
I think it also worth pointing out for future reference that, once again, the simplest, cheapest solution was the correct one. Theories of things like cunning dock-facilitated airflow or cooling systems enabling higher clocks etc just didn't happen - it's a lump of plastic with a power connector. Along with every other bit of evidence over the history of console tech predictions, hopefully discussions will remain more grounded than they can get.

The dock also has 3 USB ports in it. While they haven't announced support and when asked last year said there were no plans for external USB storage, there's a chance that something like that could be implemented in the future. Otherwise, what use is 3 USB ports? To charge 3 controllers? That's a rather odd number. I suppose they could also implement keyboard and mouse, but I find that far less likely than external storage.

If you could install games to USB storage similar to XBO, that would be fantastic. Any games a person doesn't plan on using while in mobile console mode, they could just leave attached to the dock. And then they are instantly available just by docking the Switch.

Regards,
SB
 
You might not buy it, but out there in the real world it's what Nintendo do and it's what they did this time.

It's what they've done every time.

Super Famicom came out over two years after Megadrive with, arguably, a weaker CPU. While it had more sophisticated graphics it was accomplished with two PPU chips that were each around the size of Megadrive's VDP.

N64, perhaps their most aggressive hardware effort, was nine months late and had an extremely limited launch lineup.

Gamecube came out in fall 2001 about the same time as the significantly more powerful XBox. It's known that Gecko was ready in 2000 and it goes without saying that it wasn't competitive vs medium range PC offerings even then. Flipper was demonstrated in 1999. These chips were 180nm vs contemporary 150nm GPUs and 130nm CPUs. Radeon 7500 was released over a year prior and had more fillrate and features than Flipper and would have probably fared well if paired with eDRAM and a low level console API.

Those are the ones that people might doubt. Everyone knows Wii, Wii U, and all of their handhelds were not using anywhere close to cutting edge tech.
 
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