PlayStation 4 (codename Orbis) technical hardware investigation (news and rumours)
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I think plenty here have expressed a belief that even GDDR5 would be replaced by stacked RAM eventually even if the console doesn't launch with it.
upnorthsox
Veteran
Indeed, the question then is, what can you live with for 1-1.5 years.
If they change the memory controller and the memory type down the line, how would they avoid messing up the memory performance characteristics, so that the new "slim" console behaves exactly as if it had GDDR5? Is memory timing something that can be "simulated"?
Bagel seed
Veteran
The money spent being stuck with GDDR5 for 2 years or more would be better spent figuring out (or buying) a better solution (aka stacked memory on 2.5D). Everyone will use it 2, 3, 4 years later.
I can only think that if they end up with GDDR5 for final it's only because of a massive fck up in timing. Hecatonchires summed it up well enough.
I can only think that if they end up with GDDR5 for final it's only because of a massive fck up in timing. Hecatonchires summed it up well enough.
Then you would think wrongly and ignore all the evidence already presented and shared.
As others have already pointed out, there would be substantial engineering costs in moving from 4GB DDR5 to any higher quantity.
rockaman
Regular
Exactly, and this is why if it is a feature, it cannot be a choice for developers to integrate or not.
It needs to be at the level of the OS like in Vita.
With Vita, I can take a screen of any Vita* game at any time, or the OS menus themselves, no matter what, by pressing Start + Home button.
Each image is watermarked** with Sony Computer Entertainment America, the developer of the game, and the title of the game. Ex: (c) Sony Computer Entertainment America LLC. Developed by Bend Studio. The UNCHARTED series is created by Naughty Dog, Inc.
This is at the bottom of any Uncharted: Golden Abyss screenshot you take.
Now tie screenshots to Flickr and video to Youtube, and suddenly you have an army of willing advertisers from launch and beyond.
*does not work with PS1 classics as far as I know
**does not apply to all games, only watermarks appear on games that are designated to have them, e.g. Tales from Space: Mutant Blobs Attack does not have a watermark, but Uncharted GA and MGS HD Collection will have watermarks and publisher names on them
upnorthsox
Veteran
You just abstract the memory access to a spec they need to meet for cert.
Well at least all this talk means Rambus is out. Sony went with them for two console generations and one would think they'd try to come up with a solution for PS4 as a further revenue stream. But nope.
I guess we'll have to wait a few more weeks to learn the final memory configuration of the system and then dissect all the juicy details. Keep the speculation coming guys, as I'm loving every bit of it.
I guess we'll have to wait a few more weeks to learn the final memory configuration of the system and then dissect all the juicy details. Keep the speculation coming guys, as I'm loving every bit of it.
upnorthsox
Veteran
There is a graphic cards with 6GB gddr5 available. Not that hard to develop something that is already developed.
http://www.overclockersclub.com/vimages/sapphire_hd7970_6gb_vaporx_ghz/23.jpg
http://www.overclockersclub.com/vimages/sapphire_hd7970_6gb_vaporx_ghz/21.jpg
upnorthsox
Veteran
I think that puts the DDR4 R+ memory in the 170-200GB range.
If you have developed a 4GB console designed around 4GBs of GDDR5, changing to 6 GBs is significant.
And those have nothing to do with having to change your entire design from 4GB GDDR5 to more. It's not a hard concept to grasp. Try to keep up with the topic.
Albofighter
Newcomer
If they use stacking that reduces heat and power output right? Does that mean yeilds will be good and they can activate the remaining 2 CUs? or maybe put in a better GPU.
8 Gb high bandwidth ram would take PCs years to catch up to. It's great future proofing but I wonder about diminishing returns. Unless they increase bandwidth over 200 gb/s, I don't see how that much ram will really make that big of a difference. 4-6 gb seems enough but then again we don't really know how next gen games work. Better textures, physics, engines, etc. Crysis 3 is the only next gen game that is coming out soon. Until we have an idea what that game requires to play on 1080p60 fps with high setttings and in 3D, it's hard to speculate what is really needed for next gen games.
8 Gb high bandwidth ram would take PCs years to catch up to. It's great future proofing but I wonder about diminishing returns. Unless they increase bandwidth over 200 gb/s, I don't see how that much ram will really make that big of a difference. 4-6 gb seems enough but then again we don't really know how next gen games work. Better textures, physics, engines, etc. Crysis 3 is the only next gen game that is coming out soon. Until we have an idea what that game requires to play on 1080p60 fps with high setttings and in 3D, it's hard to speculate what is really needed for next gen games.
Orbis memory has shifted in the past. Orbis was "originally" rumored to have 2GB. Now 4GB.
Does anyone know for certain what the target memory for the PS4 is 4GB? And does anyone know the target memory for the PS4 is GDDR5?
Or are we still all debating dev kits and rumors? Because if that latter is the case there is no "re-engineering" going on, just maturing development kits.
I am stating the obvious because the same points about engineering costs, difficulty, costs, etc were raised when Orbis was "slated" to have 2GB and people heard rumors of "wanting 4GB." Ta da, it "now" has 4GB.
So unless one of you is a real insider you don't know Sony's target and what they designed to begin with. So meh.
On the other hand the bigger issue worth talking is GDDR5 is expensive and 8GB would require a LOT of chips. That, and not "11th hour" design changes seems more of a hurdle.
Does anyone know for certain what the target memory for the PS4 is 4GB? And does anyone know the target memory for the PS4 is GDDR5?
Or are we still all debating dev kits and rumors? Because if that latter is the case there is no "re-engineering" going on, just maturing development kits.
I am stating the obvious because the same points about engineering costs, difficulty, costs, etc were raised when Orbis was "slated" to have 2GB and people heard rumors of "wanting 4GB." Ta da, it "now" has 4GB.
So unless one of you is a real insider you don't know Sony's target and what they designed to begin with. So meh.
On the other hand the bigger issue worth talking is GDDR5 is expensive and 8GB would require a LOT of chips. That, and not "11th hour" design changes seems more of a hurdle.
Bagel seed
Veteran
One more
http://www.rambus.com/us/news/press_releases/2013/130129a.html
Acert93 said:
2 to 4 to 8, makes sense. Upgrade each time they were able to add more memory to the stack successfully, because the higher the stack the more issues. And then they told devs after they were able to do it. And DDR3 or whatever is cheap so stack height and interposer space is the only limitation.
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