Llano IGP vs SNB IGP vs IVB IGP

Silent_Buddha said:
Well, it "looks" nice, but I'm still extremely skeptical of them reaching even 55xx levels of performance with the 65xx nomenclature. Just look at 68xx compared to 58xx. And this being on the CPU die with the bandwidth contraints to memory that it implies just makes me even more skeptical.

IMO, at least 56xx performance is what I'd need before I consider it adequate for gaming. Still it might be good for light gaming. More importantly for me is that it will be fantastic for HTPC duties if its real world power consumption is significantly lower than an equivalent CPU + 54xx or 55xx with at least the same audio and video playback capabilities.

Regards,
SB
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The naming of HD6800 tells nothing of the rest
HD5550 = 320 SP / 16 TU / 8/32 ROP @ 550MHz / 800-900MHz DDR3 or 900-1000MHz GDDR5 @ 128bit
HD5570 = 400 SP / 20 TU / 8/32 ROP @ 650MHz / 800-900MHz DDR3 or 900-1000MHz GDDR5 @ 128bit
HD5670 = 400 SP / 20 TU / 8/32 ROP @ 775MHz / 1000MHz GDDR5 @ 128bit
HD6670 = 480 SP / 24 TU / 8/32 ROP @ 800MHz / 1000MHz GDDR5 @ 128bit
 
Silent_Buddha said:
Well, it "looks" nice, but I'm still extremely skeptical of them reaching even 55xx levels of performance with the 65xx nomenclature. Just look at 68xx compared to 58xx. And this being on the CPU die with the bandwidth contraints to memory that it implies just makes me even more skeptical.

IMO, at least 56xx performance is what I'd need before I consider it adequate for gaming. Still it might be good for light gaming. More importantly for me is that it will be fantastic for HTPC duties if its real world power consumption is significantly lower than an equivalent CPU + 54xx or 55xx with at least the same audio and video playback capabilities.

Regards,
SB
Click to expand...

Come on now, the 58xx v/s 68xx naming snafu been discussed to death already ;) But in the case of Llano, we know that it has 400 SP's which is the same as Redwood, which is named Radeon 5670/5570. Now considering its going to have almost the same memory bandwidth as 5570 (if one uses dual channel DDR3-1600), performance should be too far off.

Note that in the case of Zacate it supports just single channel DDR3-1066. Yet Zacate with its GPU at 500 mhz performs anywhere between 50-70% of a discrete Radeon 5450 (which is clocked at 650 mhz, so its got a 23% clock disadvantage anyway). So i think Llano could perform quite well. Im expecting 3-4X Sandy Bridge graphics performance. And as i said, in Hybrid Crossfire with a Redwood/Turks, we could get close to Radeon 5850M (or Juniper) level performance
 
Silent_Buddha said:
Well, it "looks" nice, but I'm still extremely skeptical of them reaching even 55xx levels of performance with the 65xx nomenclature. Just look at 68xx compared to 58xx. And this being on the CPU die with the bandwidth contraints to memory that it implies just makes me even more skeptical.

IMO, at least 56xx performance is what I'd need before I consider it adequate for gaming. Still it might be good for light gaming. More importantly for me is that it will be fantastic for HTPC duties if its real world power consumption is significantly lower than an equivalent CPU + 54xx or 55xx with at least the same audio and video playback capabilities.

Regards,
SB
Click to expand...

Last december i bought a hp dm1 i believe that was a dual core neo + hd 3200 intergrated. I added in a hd 4200 and it more than doubled my frame rates in many games and the rest were cpu limited . The upgrade cost me $150 putting my laptop in the near $800 price range . It was an ultra portable but i would expect any form of Llano absoloutly crushing that chip configuration , using less power and costing alot less.

The situation wasn't much better this year

the only ultra portable i can configure is a dm4t which is $50 to add a radeon 6370 512meg or $100 for the 1gig verison. So lets assume $100 that puts me at $800 for a laptop with 6GB of ram , a radeon 6370 1 gig and a i5 450m dual core.

I'm sure the graphics processor in Llano will at least match that or surpase it in performance and I'm expecting the laptops will be much less than $800
 
eastmen said:
Last december i bought a hp dm1 i believe that was a dual core neo + hd 3200 intergrated. I added in a hd 4200 and it more than doubled my frame rates in many games and the rest were cpu limited . The upgrade cost me $150 putting my laptop in the near $800 price range . It was an ultra portable but i would expect any form of Llano absoloutly crushing that chip configuration , using less power and costing alot less.
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You paid someone to change the soldered northbridge in your subnotebook?!


How is that even possible? Maybe they simply changed the motherboard?

Plus, the only way I see the HD4200 doubling the performance of the HD3200 is if it has
a) Higher clocked (by a lot)
b) using the system memory bus instead of that limited 32bit sideport bus in some HD3200 systems (like mine, i.e.)
c) a combination of the above.


Well, I bought an Acer Ferrari One with an XGP port over a year and a half ago and I've been waiting for that external graphics card to come. It's not coming, of course.
Might as well get look for the mobile HD3870 they made for the Fujitsu model, in e-bay.

Then again, I'll gain even more if I just wait for a 12" model with a Llano.
 
ToTTenTranz said:
You paid someone to change the soldered northbridge in your subnotebook?!


How is that even possible? Maybe they simply changed the motherboard?

Plus, the only way I see the HD4200 doubling the performance of the HD3200 is if it has
a) Higher clocked (by a lot)
b) using the system memory bus instead of that limited 32bit sideport bus in some HD3200 systems (like mine, i.e.)
c) a combination of the above.
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Many notebooks have an expansion slot for discrete graphics. They usually have dedicated memory on them.
 
eastmen said:
it was an option on the platform mabye it was a 4330 then. I dunno don't pay much attention
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Oh then yes. Going from a 3430 to a 4330 would give you twice the performance in many cases. (80shaders+8TMUs vs. 40shaders+4TMUs).
 
eastmen said:
Last december i bought a hp dm1 i believe that was a dual core neo + hd 3200 intergrated. I added in a hd 4200 and it more than doubled my frame rates in many games and the rest were cpu limited . The upgrade cost me $150 putting my laptop in the near $800 price range . It was an ultra portable but i would expect any form of Llano absoloutly crushing that chip configuration , using less power and costing alot less.

The situation wasn't much better this year
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By last December, do you mean Dec 2010?

This past November I bought an Acer 3820TG, which has a 2.4GHz i3 and an HD 5650, and it was under $800. Only 3.9lbs , almost 6h battery life when the discrete is switched off. Faster, lighter, thinner and better looking than the Alienware M11x, plus it has a bigger screen.

I think it's a damn fine laptop. Llano has a lot of potential, but AMD has to execute with price, performance, and power consumption, or else discrete+SB(or even Arrandale) will still be the better option.
 
Mintmaster said:
By last December, do you mean Dec 2010?

This past November I bought an Acer 3820TG, which has a 2.4GHz i3 and an HD 5650, and it was under $800. Only 3.9lbs , almost 6h battery life when the discrete is switched off. Faster, lighter, thinner and better looking than the Alienware M11x, plus it has a bigger screen.

I think it's a damn fine laptop. Llano has a lot of potential, but AMD has to execute with price, performance, and power consumption, or else discrete+SB(or even Arrandale) will still be the better option.
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yea , sorry about the vageness of that. I mean nov 2010 which to me was last nov and this nov 2011 was this nov meh.

I agree they need to hit all the notes and not just a few , i just hope it happens
 
eastmen said:
yea , sorry about the vageness of that. I mean nov 2010 which to me was last nov and this nov 2011 was this nov meh.
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I was actually wondering if you meant Nov 2009. I was just showing you that the $800 benchmark for a thin-and-light 4-5 months ago was not Neo+4330, but rather i3+5650. That's a colossal difference.

I doubt I would like even a 4-core Llano over my setup, and we don't even know if it's suitable for thin and lights, so I don't expect any impact in this class of notebook. I was really excited about Llano back when you couldn't get decent discrete graphics in notebooks under 4lbs, but it's going to have to hit some pretty lofty performance and power consumption targets to be anything but a niche product now.
 
It's just that you're seeing it from a consumer POV. I'm sure OEMs will jump at things like Llano even if it's just for the reason that they might get away without discrete GPUa for a larger number of configurations.
 
Mintmaster said:
I was actually wondering if you meant Nov 2009. I was just showing you that the $800 benchmark for a thin-and-light 4-5 months ago was not Neo+4330, but rather i3+5650. That's a colossal difference.

I doubt I would like even a 4-core Llano over my setup, and we don't even know if it's suitable for thin and lights, so I don't expect any impact in this class of notebook. I was really excited about Llano back when you couldn't get decent discrete graphics in notebooks under 4lbs, but it's going to have to hit some pretty lofty performance and power consumption targets to be anything but a niche product now.
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yea i know its gotten better .

Still though your looking at $800 for your laptop thats alot of money for some. i3 + 5650 isn't bad at that price point but will a 4 core llano with a 6x00 part and a 6x00 add in for crossfire at $800 or less be better ?

Isn't the i3 a dual core cpu ?
 
@AnarchX:

Charlie's speculation looked like something that would be for Haswell not Ivybridge. Everything listed above in addition to clock speed gains and buffer fettling is all I would expect.

Having said that there is absolutely no info on what Haswell brings to the table?
 
Meh.. 16 EUs won't do wonders.

I can only see the ULV versions trying to compete with a "Neo" version of the dual-core, 160 shader Llano, but still losing terribly in 3D performance.
 
ToTTenTranz said:
Meh.. 16 EUs won't do wonders.

I can only see the ULV versions trying to compete with a "Neo" version of the dual-core, 160 shader Llano, but still losing terribly in 3D performance.
Click to expand...

If those EU would perform better then previous EU, Having 30% more EU, 30% Higher Clockspeed and 30% per EU performance should bring up to 100% increase in performance.
 
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