NPD September 2009

[Asher]

Yes ! Then again, they have downloadable movie revenue, and Blu-ray consumer + business revenue. In short, they have slightly different business plan from MS.

I'm not sure I see your point at all.

MS has downloadable movie revenue as well (did you forget MS has a very large movie/TV show store?). It's true that Sony also has the Bluray sales, but I'm not sure why that's any important distinction in this discussion...bluray or games, you're buying bits on a disc and Sony/MS are taking a cut of it.

Sony is leaving money on the table because they have to, they're playing catchup. It's the reversal of last generation between MS and Sony. Remember how ridiculously overpriced PS2 memory cards were? That's the Xbox 360 HDD this generation.

That's all there is to it.

 

[eastmen]

Yes ! Then again, they have downloadable movie revenue, and Blu-ray consumer + business revenue. In short, they have slightly different business plan from MS. I am not sure I want Sony to increase peripheral prices or adopt proprietary interfaces. If they need more money, then they will do whatever necessary to get us to pay, or raise money elsewhere.



Different purposes. PS3 has prepaid cards for people who are not comfortable to pay using credit cards. XBL mandates point card usage.

Wait do you mean they mandate charging your credit card online for points or that they require you to physicly go out and buy said point cards ? Because I have no problems buying points online with my credit card.

Also while some don't like the point converison its alot easier to find points on sale. I was able to get 4000 point cards for $35 bucks at target a few times with a coupon. They are normaly $50. At the same I'm i normaly also get 12 month xbox live cards for $30-$40 vs the $50. Actually I was able to get about 20 12 + 1 month xbox live cards for $30 each at one point when ciruit city closed down.

However aside from over kill prices from ms , I do not mind having to buy a hardrive through them. I wouldn't mind buying through sony too. As long as the prices weren't so out of wack. On the 360 I don't think a 120 gig hardrive for $60-70 would be bad or a 250 gig for $120 ish to be bad. Sure its more than what you'd buy for a drive at newegg. But I think the ease of upgrading the hardrive on the 360 is not a bad deal. My friends father who can barely turn on a computer was able to upgrade to a 120 gig hardrive. At the same time I had to upgrade his ps3 for him.

 

[patsu]

I'm pretty sure I've spent more on the PS3 for peripherals than the 360...

First I bought the overpriced SIXAXIS controllers...then I had to replace them with overpriced DualShock 3 controllers.

Yes, the DS3 controller is more expensive than 360's because of the built-in accelerometer and gyro. The SIXAXIS was cheaper than both, but not on the shelf anymore. Everyone will have their own spending stories, but we will need to talk in average and general terms here.

I'm not sure I see your point at all.

MS has downloadable movie revenue as well (did you forget MS has a very large movie/TV show store?). It's true that Sony also has the Bluray sales, but I'm not sure why that's any important distinction in this discussion...bluray or games, you're buying bits on a disc and Sony/MS are taking a cut of it.

The point is Sony has additional revenue from Blu-ray (Royalty, services, software, hardware). As for downloadable movie and rented TV, Sony's approach is different. They seem to want to do everything themselves worldwide. Their business plans seem to be different.

Sony is leaving money on the table because they have to, they're playing catchup. It's the reversal of last generation between MS and Sony. Remember how ridiculously overpriced PS2 memory cards were? That's the Xbox 360 HDD this generation.

That's all there is to it.

I didn't say Sony did not leave money on the table
The point was Sony adopted open standards this gen. I'd love to keep it that way. There is no catching up here, just differences in approach.

Wait do you mean they mandate charging your credit card online for points or that they require you to physicly go out and buy said point cards ? Because I have no problems buying points online with my credit card.

I was saying points are mandatory for XBL transactions (although AntShaw corrected me).

Points card is a mainstream currency on XBL. There are deals for XLB points offline right ? I remember seeing joker454 posting discounts to buy points in some brick-n-mortar stores. Those may count as peripheral sales ? I haven't seen much (if any) discount on PSN pre-paid cards so far. In fact, I don't know any of my friends use them at all.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

It'd be easy enough to tell if NPD is counting points cards in either Software or Accessories, considering how many things you can buy with points it should show up in top 10 accessories or top 20 software sales month after month.

Regards,
SB

 

[makattack]

I was saying points are mandatory for XBL transactions (although AntShaw corrected me).

Points card is a mainstream currency on XBL. There are deals for XLB points offline right ? I remember seeing joker454 posting discounts to buy points in some brick-n-mortar stores. Those may count as peripheral sales ? I haven't seen much (if any) discount on PSN pre-paid cards so far. In fact, I don't know any of my friends use them at all.

Actually, those XBL points cards are also sold online at discounted rates: Amazon, Dell, etc. They're just physical cards with codes you input on xbox.com or from the 360 to increase your points pool. I really do like these cards. They also have discounted XBL subscription cards, where someone else in this thread stated you can get a full years XBL subscription for less than 50USD (which is the standard, I believe) -- funny enough, I haven't paid full price for a XBL Gold account since getting my 360.

Ultimately, you are right. I believe these cards (XBL points & gold membership) may count towards accessory or software sales. I know that some of these cards are bundled with other accessories or software titles as well. For example, when I picked up my 360 last year, I also bought a XBL gold subscription card that came with one of the Xbox webcams for $40.00USD. A nice deal in my book: gold membership for a 1 year + a free webcam -- which arguably has little practical use/value for less than the cost of a gold membership had I signed up online.

Granted, I've only used it to snap a photo of my mug and use it as my XBL gamer pic as a test and decided to remove/put away the camera as it's just more clutter. Had I foresight, I would have waited for the XBL Gold + Controller bundle.

I suspect MS does track these packages as accessories.

 

[Rangers]

Wait do you mean they mandate charging your credit card online for points or that they require you to physicly go out and buy said point cards ? Because I have no problems buying points online with my credit card.

Also while some don't like the point converison its alot easier to find points on sale. I was able to get 4000 point cards for $35 bucks at target a few times with a coupon. They are normaly $50. At the same I'm i normaly also get 12 month xbox live cards for $30-$40 vs the $50. Actually I was able to get about 20 12 + 1 month xbox live cards for $30 each at one point when ciruit city closed down.

However aside from over kill prices from ms , I do not mind having to buy a hardrive through them. I wouldn't mind buying through sony too. As long as the prices weren't so out of wack. On the 360 I don't think a 120 gig hardrive for $60-70 would be bad or a 250 gig for $120 ish to be bad. Sure its more than what you'd buy for a drive at newegg. But I think the ease of upgrading the hardrive on the 360 is not a bad deal. My friends father who can barely turn on a computer was able to upgrade to a 120 gig hardrive. At the same time I had to upgrade his ps3 for him.

MS has the points cards as much for people who dont have access to credit cards as anything else. The young demographic being important in video games, kids may not have a CC but they can get their parents to but them Live cards or points cards.

The points conversion thing is another issue entirely. MS could denote points cards in dollars at retail if they wanted. I'm on prepaid phone and I buy cards with a dollar denomination for it, IE $25 card, $50 card etc.

As for the hard drive, there's lot's of bellyaching about it, but at this point I think it's less and less of an issue, for the simple reason that the 360 (and PS3) are gaining ever larger standard HDD sizes. 360 has come with 60GB on it's default model for a while, and now comes with 120. That's plenty for 99.9% of people.

 

[Rangers]

It'd be easy enough to tell if NPD is counting points cards in either Software or Accessories, considering how many things you can buy with points it should show up in top 10 accessories or top 20 software sales month after month.

Regards,
SB

It does, see here and scroll down to bottom of page for accessories list that includes point cards http://kotaku.com/5179731/februarys-top+selling-games-accessories-by-platform

 

[eastmen]

MS has the points cards as much for people who dont have access to credit cards as anything else. The young demographic being important in video games, kids may not have a CC but they can get their parents to but them Live cards or points cards.

The points conversion thing is another issue entirely. MS could denote points cards in dollars at retail if they wanted. I'm on prepaid phone and I buy cards with a dollar denomination for it, IE $25 card, $50 card etc.

As for the hard drive, there's lot's of bellyaching about it, but at this point I think it's less and less of an issue, for the simple reason that the 360 (and PS3) are gaining ever larger standard HDD sizes. 360 has come with 60GB on it's default model for a while, and now comes with 120. That's plenty for 99.9% of people.

There is one way that the points is better for consumers. There are deals on them . I have yet to see wii or ps3 money cards reduced in price , but i see xbox points on sale all the time.

The point is Sony has additional revenue from Blu-ray (Royalty, services, software, hardware). As for downloadable movie and rented TV, Sony's approach is different. They seem to want to do everything themselves worldwide. Their business plans seem to be different.

Don't forget that MS also gets money for xbox live subscriptions. I wonder how well that cancels out sony's bluray stake ? xbox live is about $3 a month and there are around 10m paying for it. So thats a good 30m a month. How much does sony make off each bluray sold ?

 

[goonergaz]

Yes, the DS3 controller is more expensive than 360's because of the built-in accelerometer and gyro.

It also had built in rechargable batts

 

[goonergaz]

I have yet to see ps3 money cards reduced in price , but i see xbox points on sale all the time.

In the UK they sell £20 cards for under £16...the great thing about real money cards is you know exactly what you're spending...with the Wii and XB versions it's like they're trying to hide something (IMHO).

 

[eastmen]

In the UK they sell £20 cards for under £16...the great thing about real money cards is you know exactly what you're spending...with the Wii and XB versions it's like they're trying to hide something (IMHO).

Yes they are hiding things from those who can't do simple math !

 

[goonergaz]

Yes they are hiding things from those who can't do simple math !

lol, I know what you mean, but why even bother to invent a new currency (that will cost money to do and also cause cross region confusion) when there's a perfectly valid one that works perfectly well (as proven by PSN)?

 

[Nesh]

Yes they are hiding things from those who can't do simple math !

Or from those that can do math?

Whats the rate between each currency and MS's points?

 

[specwarGP2]

There is one way that the points is better for consumers. There are deals on them . I have yet to see wii or ps3 money cards reduced in price , but i see xbox points on sale all the time.

If you can buy points at a discount, then the value of those points were inflated to begin with.

 

[itch]

There is one way that the points is better for consumers. There are deals on them . I have yet to see wii or ps3 money cards reduced in price , but i see xbox points on sale all the time.

I bought a couple psn cards with 10% off coupons at bestbuy. Paid $18 for a $20 card, no tax. I used the 10% off video games, movies, and music coupon I get in the mail every couple months or so.

 

[AzBat]

It'd be easy enough to tell if NPD is counting points cards in either Software or Accessories, considering how many things you can buy with points it should show up in top 10 accessories or top 20 software sales month after month.

It's showing up in the Top 10 Accessories...

Top 10 Accessories

1. WII NUNCHUK CONTROLLER NINTENDO OF AMERICA
2. 360 LIVE 1600 POINT GAME CARD MICROSOFT
3. WII REMOTE CONTROLLER W/ JACKET NINTENDO OF AMERICA
4. PS3 DUALSHOCK 3 WIRELESS CONTROLLER SONY
5. 360 LIVE 1 MONTH GOLD CARD MICROSOFT
6. WII REMOTE CONTROLLER NINTENDO OF AMERICA
7. 360 HEADSET MICROSOFT
8. 360 LIVE 12 MONTH GOLD CARD MICROSOFT
9. 360 LIVE 3 MONTH GOLD CARD MICROSOFT
10. WII WHEEL GRIP NINTENDO OF AMERICA

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1287327&postcount=158

EDIT: Oops, Rangers beat me to it.

Tommy McClain

 

[AzBat]

Gamasutra has a 6-page analysis of the latest numbers. They also have some data of their own...

According to exclusive data provided to Gamasutra by the NPD Group, Microsoft's Xbox 360 has improved its tie ratio to 8.8 titles per system as of September 2009, up from 8.6 titles per system three months ago. The Nintendo Wii's tie ratio also increased in that period, from 6.4 to 6.5 titles per system.

Only the PlayStation 3 held its tie ratio essentially constant in the last quarter. According to NPD Group data 6.8 titles have been sold for each system.

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/4172/npd_behind_the_numbers_september_.php

Tommy McClain

 

[patsu]

There is one way that the points is better for consumers. There are deals on them . I have yet to see wii or ps3 money cards reduced in price , but i see xbox points on sale all the time.

They are using different approach. For better deals, Sony (and Nintendo) would be discounting the price of the games directly instead of doing special deals for the points. If they deal with the game price directly, it allows them to target the users better. They can also do bundling deal if they want to. XBL can execute these moves too. I have seen Sony discount PSN game price, so the users do get promotional price from time to time.

OTOH the point discount approach allows MS to keep a larger amount of float (minus the discount). Your money is parked with them for earning interest and guaranteed consumption later. This is similar to Sony giving discount on PSN pre-paid cards. I personally haven't seen such promotion from Sony yet. On PSN, you may also have residual amount of $$$ left in the PSN wallet.

Gamasutra has a 6-page analysis of the latest numbers. They also have some data of their own...

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/4172/npd_behind_the_numbers_september_.php

Based on Video Business' analysis, the % of PS3 users watching Blu-ray on PS3 did not change too. So they may be attracting a different kind of users. The effect of PS3 Slim price drop won't be apparent until a few more months later.

 

[AlNom]

XBLM can do both. They've had weekly/monthly deals for marketplace software over the last few months already.

 

[dobwal]

I can see the motivation for MS's point system. When manufacturing cards denominated in actual currency and then selling them at a discount, you are actually devaluing the currency on your network. If you are constantly selling $20 cards for $16 dollars then for all intent and purpose a $1 on your network is really only worth 80 cents in the real world.

The same hold true for points but with points I think its easier from an accounting point of view and makes for easy acceptance by the vendors who hawk wares on your network.